Lots of trade rumors popping up about Hayward to boston?

[cowhide]

This is just a bit of BIll Simmons BS. He is starting to love his own voice. The NBA doesn't work that way. Good Teams don't sign players because they have a relationship with a coach. Does it influence their choice? Yea but it isn't the overriding factor in signing players. Besides Gordon is going to go where the money is or where the best fit is.

I personally think the Jazz need to evaluate if Gordon wants to be in a Jazz uniform. I hope they don't get caught in a Portland situation like Wes Matthews where a team includes poison pill and the Jazz can't match it due to financial reasons. I 'd rather the Jazz get a good player and a first round pick than pay Gordon 12-13 million.

 

[candrew]

Who cares about the casual Jazz fan!!! As a fanatical Jazz fan I have no problem trading anyone if it gets us closer to a championship.

Please explain how any deal under the sun with Boston for Hayward would get us closer to a championship? Bearing in mind Boston will never give up their own pick unprotected for an RFA.

 

[franklin]

Oh really? So what free agent can the Jazz nab that will throw down 17 5 and 5 a night?

I love how Gordon Foolsgold's 5 assists come at the expense of a ****load of long 2's on inefficient shooting and roller coaster scoring.

17/5 can be had in Green, but whoever is saying take him can eat rocks. Green doesn't hurt the tank.

 

[ijazz]

Who cares about the casual Jazz fan!!! As a fanatical Jazz fan I have no problem trading anyone if it gets us closer to a championship. Hayward had a chance to re-sign with the Jazz but he chose to take a chance in FA, therefore I have no loyalty towards him (he has a right to be a FA). The Jazz have to do what is best for the franchise, so if they don't think Hayward will re-sign at a reasonable rate then they need to trade him.

I hope Gordon remains a Jazz player but it has to be at the right price. So no matter if you are a casual or fanatical fan what this says to me is that the Jazz organization is trying to make the team better and not doing stupid things like overpaying for replaceable players (i.e. AK, Ostertag).

Getting rid of DW has been great for the Jazz, DW has struggled with injuries and the Jazz got Favors, Kanter, GS pick, and 2nd round pick netted Neto. Losing him also made the team worse so the Jazz were able to get Burks and Burke. Two guys who would not be on the team if we patched the team to just make the playoffs. How would the causal fan reacted if the Jazz let DW go for nothing?

Keep in mind with Hayward that he has publicly stated he loves Utah and wants to stay.

Utah (be it right or wrong), has trouble attracting FA's. I think Utah would be foolish to trade him / let him go unmatched.

I think he is worth 10-11/year. HOWEVER, I think Jazz will be forced to match 12-13/year. Jazz need to decide now if they will pay that.
If no, trade him.
If yes, don't worry about it.

Business is business.

 

[fishonjazz]

Green doesn't hurt the tank.

Just gaining green would hurt the tank.

Losing hayward for green and causing lineup changes and chemistry issues might help the tank though

 

[cowhide]

I'm not really talking about right or wrong or money - I am talking about how a franchise is perceived when they keep pawning off their best players without net improvement. If you were an NBA player would you sign a 4 year deal with this organization? If you were a coach would you join their staff? If you were not a diehard fan would you spend your money to come and see them play?

Jazz didn't pawn off their best player when they traded DW, he didn't want to be here. I was and still am a fan of DW basketball skills but he hasn't performed at the same level since he left mostly due to injuries. Jazz have been one of the most loyal organizations in the NBA to a fault. Sometimes you have to make tough financial decisions and not keep players because they want too much or they have other guys to pay. Did you just want the Jazz to re-sign Millsap and AJ simply to appease the "fans"? Jazz gave AK the Max to appease some of these Jazz fans and guess what that got them? Nada!

Jazz seem to fill out their roster every year and most players that come through Utah have positive things to say about the organization. Yes there are a few exceptions but every franchise has certain players who don't want to re-sign with their specific organization due to many different factors. If you are so down on the organization why do you even care what they do?

 

[NUMBERICA]

Please explain how any deal under the sun with Boston for Hayward would get us closer to a championship? Bearing in mind Boston will never give up their own pick unprotected for an RFA.

If someone throws >$50 million/4 years at Hayward, the Jazz will be in a lose/lose scenario. Trading him with that possibility on the horizon gets the Jazz closer to a championship.

 

[cowhide]

Keep in mind with Hayward that he has publicly stated he loves Utah and wants to stay.

Utah (be it right or wrong), has trouble attracting FA's. I think Utah would be foolish to trade him / let him go unmatched.

I think he is worth 10-11/year. HOWEVER, I think Jazz will be forced to match 12-13/year. Jazz need to decide now if they will pay that.
If no, trade him.
If yes, don't worry about it.

Business is business.

Free agency is overrated. Most FAs are overpaid. It is the worse way to build a team in my opinion especially if your team isn't in the running for the Lebron James of the league. Jazz have gotten 2nd/3rd tier players to sign contracts. Some have been matched and others have turned down our offers for multiple reasons. Not every player in the NBA hates Utah. I can assure you that if in two or three years the Jazz have a legitimate shot at the championship, players will come knocking. However, just like the S&M years there will be no money to give out.

I am ok with giving Hayward 10 or 11 million a year but 12 and up is overpaying. Any player can say they want to stay in a place but until he signs the contract it is simply good PR to do so. You are right business is business.

 

[cowhide]

If someone throws >$50 million/4 years at Hayward, the Jazz will be in a lose/lose scenario. Trading him with that possibility on the horizon gets the Jazz closer to a championship.

I agree. Waiting and not trading him results in losing him to FA or overpaying him. If the Jazz let him walk and get nothing then they are foolish. It is better to get something than nothing. What will all the pro-Hayward fans say if Boston or Phoenix offer him 13 million a year and the Jazz say NO? This board will explode with why didn't we trade him threads?

 

[green]

This is what it comes down to: Why would it make sense for Utah, and why would it make sense for Boston. I'll start with Boston. Here is Boston's core:

PG - Rondo
SG -
SF - Green, Wallace
PF - Sullinger
C - Olynyk

20 million in cap space and a TON of future draft picks. Boston has a VERY nice core. So, what do they have to offer?

Humphries, Olynyk and maybe Green.
2014 pick from Brooklyn/Atl (right now #20)
2015 LAC pick (20's)
2016 unprotected 1st from Brooklyn
2018 1st from Brooklyn

So, they don't have a ton to give up. BUT, Hayward would fit perfectly in their blueprint right now. He can play the 2 or 3, can shoot (compliments Sullinger and Rondo), and good chemistry guy. Hayward fits in perfectly. And let's be honest here, odds are, if they could pry Hayward away from Utah, Hayward would be better than Green or any pick they would send. Plus, they might be able to sign him cheaper than if they went after him as a RFA.

Hayward would be perfect for Boston. Especially if Boston ended up with Wiggins or Parker or Embiid. That is a heck of a team:

Rondo
Hayward
Wiggins/Parker
Sully
Embiid/Olynyk

Plus you can add a max player (or two if you trade Green).

Boston is contending in a year or two with that team.

So, why would Utah trade Hayward? They won't get equal value back. Utah considers trading Hayward for one reason: Money. If they don't want to pay Hayward. Now, could Boston send any semblance of a package back for Hayward? Nope. UNLESS, Utah likes Burks and wants Parker/Wiggins. Then the Jazz are getting two things from Boston: Financial relief and a possible Hall of Famer.

If I am Utah, I want Green because he is a solid player and can start for you or come off the bench. I also want one great first or two so-so firsts. If I am Utah, I want the 2016 and 2018 firsts from Brooklyn. Those are great picks, because there is a chance they end up being really good picks. And if they aren't, you have two picks in 2016, 2017, 2018 and you should be very good by then, so you can use those picks on role players, trade for role players, or trade up for a key player.

I don't budge from that stance. Worst case scenario, Boston says no and I keep Hayward, a very good player. Best case scenario? Boston says yes, I get Green and sit him the rest of the year, I get Jabari, and a ton of picks and am contending really quickly.

 

[green]

OR, I trade Hayward for 2014 and another first.

 

[Former Member]

I'm not implying that I like any of the trade ideas involving Olynk, but Werent there rumors that the Jazz really liked Olynk? I thought he really impressed the jazz during his workouts.

 

[akirac73]

Then **** em

Exactly. We still have the upper hand no matter what. The Jazz can make it known out there that we will match whatever offer Hayward recieves from other teams in the offseason, so if Boston really wants him, they better step up their offers, this is their only chance to get him.

 

[cowhide]

Why would the Jazz sit Green? I know they would be tanking but how would that sit with the league, Green and other NBA players besides Jazz teammates. I agree the Nets picks would be great. The Nets are going to suck even worse by then. Boston is not going to overpay to get Hayward. There is no reason to do so. They can offer him a contract in the summer.

 

[cowhide]

Exactly. We still have the upper hand no matter what. The Jazz can make it known out there that we will match whatever offer Hayward recieves from other teams in the offseason, so if Boston really wants him, they better step up their offers, this is their only chance to get him.

Gordon has the upper hand if this scenario takes place. Overpaying for any player is bad business. Haven't the Ostertag and AK contracts proven what happens when you overpay.

 

[b_line]

Why would the Jazz sit Green? I know they would be tanking but how would that sit with the league, Green and other NBA players besides Jazz teammates. I agree the Nets picks would be great. The Nets are going to suck even worse by then. Boston is not going to overpay to get Hayward. There is no reason to do so. They can offer him a contract in the summer.

So Hayward is in this thing called restricted free agency. He is basically under contract. Sure, he can sign an offer from any team he wants, but the Jazz have the power to match any and every offer. He will be playing with the Jazz unless they get an offer they can not refuse. If Boston wants Hayward, then they have to make it worth it to Utah to trade him. They are not getting him any other way. It is impossible for Boston to get Hayward if the Jazz say they are keeping him.

 

[b_line]

Gordon has the upper hand if this scenario takes place. Overpaying for any player is bad business. Haven't the Ostertag and AK contracts proven what happens when you overpay.

Those are completely different scenarios. Ostertag flat out was lazy and did not play well. AK had a way bigger contract than Hayward will be eligible for, and the salary cap was lower then, so the percentage of cap room that AK's contract took was much larger. AK maxed out at like 18 mil per year under a less than 60 million per year cap. Hayward's contract maxes out at about 15.5 mil per year, under a salary cap that could be closer to $70 million. HUGE difference in the scenarios between the two players.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Exactly. We still have the upper hand no matter what. The Jazz can make it known out there that we will match whatever offer Hayward recieves from other teams in the offseason...

Except that it's already known that the Jazz won't since they couldn't come to terms on the extension.

 

[addictionary]

If Hayward is a goner, Utah better secure that pick for the forward. I'm sure it's just talk though.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Except that it's already known that the Jazz won't since they couldn't come to terms on the extension.

That's a leap in logic that I think is flawed. Jazz did not know before the season how Hayward would respond to being the team leader. He struggled early, but has shown signs recently of adapting his mentality and game. IMO, he was trying to do way too much. With Burks in the line-up he no longer has to play PG AND SG.

What the Jazz were doing is essentially saying "prove it." You're a bit of an unknown quantity and this is the amount of money we are willing to offer NOW. Favors took the money and the security of a new contract. Gordon decided to roll the dice and see if he could get a bigger payday.

Jazz were willing to match for Millsap, but wanted him to establish his value. He did; Portland gave him an offer sheet and Utah matched. If some team offers Gordon a contract, they'll need to free up that money, then have that cap space tied up while Utah decides whether to match or not. That's a risk. IINM, even IF Gordon were to reach a verbal agreement in the 10 days prior to real free agency, the clock doesn't start ticking until FA officially begins. In essence, that's TWO weeks that a team like Boston would have to say to player "X" - "hey, you're our second choice...if Utah DOESN'T match, we'll call you." And if Player "X" is any good, he'd have multiple other suitors and would not wait.

The market for RFA's is often softer than their perceived value specifically for that reason. And with Utah's cap room, there's no "poison pill" any team could put in a contract to make it impossible for Utah to match.