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What does LeBron need to do to surpass Jordan?

The NBA teams should focus on the coaches and the systems, building solid team plays etc. instead of rising superstars and especially instead of asking "uh hello is Lebron better than MJ now? or does he have to keep trying?" At this point Lebron's given **** to this question must have really fallen down after the consecutive 2.

The Spurs example is a good one. Pop, Manu, Tony and Tim's team is a great example of how a set-piece-based no-superstar-hero-dreamer team would do in the league. The Jazz are the best candidate mentality-wise to become the next thing in that matter similar to Spurs, so I hope they do.
 
Hack said:
Dont forget 3 pointers, overall athleticism, conditioning, knowledge of the game, etc..
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you trollin.

3pters don't help you win games half the times. you rely too much on 3, you'll die by it. conditioning? on what planet earth do these players have better conditioning? Wilt avg over 48+ min in a season with horrible shoes(not even chuck tayler's) who had to travel with shi!!ty bus every other day.

go watch some 80's games and they ran up and down the court like mad people. only team that resembled that kinda pace was dantoni's suns.

knowledge of the game? give me an example. i really can't see how today's players have more knowledge of the game. back then players usually stayed at least 3 years in college. most 4 years. i see low basketball IQ every time i watch NBA basketball.
 
addictionary said:
The NBA teams should focus on the coaches and the systems, building solid team plays etc. instead of rising superstars and especially instead of asking "uh hello is Lebron better than MJ now? or does he have to keep trying?" At this point Lebron's given **** to this question must have really fallen down after the consecutive 2.

The Spurs example is a good one. Pop, Manu, Tony and Tim's team is a great example of how a set-piece-based no-superstar-hero-dreamer team would do in the league. The Jazz are the best candidate mentality-wise to become the next thing in that matter similar to Spurs, so I hope they do.
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also remember how pistons destroyed lakers? that team really reminded me of an old school team. they didn't have crazy athleticism. they had bunch of good players. good coaching, tough D, good chemistry, and good floor general. beat the lakers team convincingly. on paper, it was a total mismatch.
 
Hack said:
Whats funny about this discussion is you guys are praising the same guy who played exactly the way you are critizing. Somehow you are pulling that all off in the same breath.

Jordan's ballhogingness is responsible for all the wannabe's you see in todays game and in the Iverson era.

look, I dont like chuckers and ball hoggers either. I dont care for guys like Melo, Iverson, Brandon Jennings, etc... I think they are bad for the game too.

But today's game has a lot of very good basketball players. Lebron in particular is the perfect model of a good basketball player. He is undoing the garbage effect that Jordan had on the game. Future generations will be passing more and playing with fundamentals because of him.

But somehow, Jordan is the hero here. He's not. He's just the first to ballhog and make it work. He played in a league where no one had seen this before. If Lebron, Kobe, and Wade played in his era they would have thrown a wrench into Jordan winning 6 rings, and if they each had a turn to trade places, they would have accomplished the same as Jordan.

You are just over romanticizing the past. Go back and watch some full real games. Its not as magical as you make it seem. The league had nowhere near the overall talent that it has today. The top players were great and would transcend to any era, but their counterparts would not. The simple fact of the matter is the NBA is worldwide and popular than ever. That means competition to get in is much stiffer and the understanding of basketball has advanced. Do really think nothing has been learned since then? You are high if you think that.
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at the end of the day Jordan shot 50% fg and had good assist numbers. the GOAT can ballhog all he wants. and i'm not sure which era you are talking about. mid 80's? late 80's? early 90's? late 90's? you do know 80's had Magic, isiah, etc. all great passers? and magic didn't make more passers. passing is a skill. KD is the league mvp right now. fans will always glorify scorers more than passers. Bron in his prime is losing a friggin mvp battle to a great scorer.

from 80's to mid 90's the league had plenty of good teams with good ball movement. let's look at the 90's. reggie's indiana pacers would beat today's indiana pacers. ewing's knicks would beat this miami heat IMO. too big and physical. you saw how they struggled against the pacers. and depends on which rules we are playing. in a hand check era, more physical team has an advantage.

how about the west? i would say barkley's suns, hakeem's rockets, Jazz, all would be ranked ahead of today's thunder/spurs/blazers/clippers rather easily.

i can buy there are more talented players in today's league, but this league sure is missing many great teams. it's a team game. just ask melo why his knicks has only 1 more wins than us.
 
Hack said:
You are just over romanticizing the past. Go back and watch some full real games. Its not as magical as you make it seem. The league had nowhere near the overall talent that it has today. The top players were great and would transcend to any era, but their counterparts would not. The simple fact of the matter is the NBA is worldwide and popular than ever. That means competition to get in is much stiffer and the understanding of basketball has advanced. Do really think nothing has been learned since then? You are high if you think that.
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This
 
Fabtrey said:
also remember how pistons destroyed lakers? that team really reminded me of an old school team. they didn't have crazy athleticism. they had bunch of good players. good coaching, tough D, good chemistry, and good floor general. beat the lakers team convincingly. on paper, it was a total mismatch.
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And I forgot to say the thing I wanted to say, the league would never want the focus get away from individual success to team success because it's against the marketing strategy. Individual young generations naturally bond easier to stand alone character heroes instead of bonding to a team success relentless of whoever the hero in that team would put his stats or show his skills. But in reality for the real success as you have mentioned, it 's a team game.
 
imagine kevin love playing in the 80's or 90's. i mean just look at him. he is so talented and athletic. he would make karl malone pee in his pants. barkley? lol that cute little 6ft 5 dude has nothing on great kevin love. i mean this white man has been top 3 in rebounds every damn year in this freaky athletic era.
 
Fabtrey said:
at the end of the day Jordan shot 50% fg and had good assist numbers. the GOAT can ballhog all he wants. and i'm not sure which era you are talking about. mid 80's? late 80's? early 90's? late 90's? you do know 80's had Magic, isiah, etc. all great passers? and magic didn't make more passers. passing is a skill. KD is the league mvp right now. fans will always glorify scorers more than passers. Bron in his prime is losing a friggin mvp battle to a great scorer.

from 80's to mid 90's the league had plenty of good teams with good ball movement. let's look at the 90's. reggie's indiana pacers would beat today's indiana pacers. ewing's knicks would beat this miami heat IMO. too big and physical. you saw how they struggled against the pacers. and depends on which rules we are playing. in a hand check era, more physical team has an advantage.

how about the west? i would say barkley's suns, hakeem's rockets, Jazz, all would be ranked ahead of today's thunder/spurs/blazers/clippers rather easily.

i can buy there are more talented players in today's league, but this league sure is missing many great teams. it's a team game. just ask melo why his knicks has only 1 more wins than us.
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Im not arguing that Lebron is better than Jordan as much as Im just arguing that its closer than you think. Your imagination has gone wild on you. Lebron would dominate the crap out of any era. If he had played at the exact same time as Jordan, and had a really good side kick like Pippen, its likely he gets a few chips during that era. And that would take away from how good Jordan is perceived. Lebron has had to play in the same era as players like Wade, Kobe, and Durant. Who are closer to Jordan's skill level than you think.

The fact is, there are just too many variables and what ifs to deal with to decide this. They are all great in their own right. They are all different players.

Jordan was the first model that came out. Now we have it being replicated more often because the NBA attracts more hopefuls every day. The money is a huge draw. The world population is growing. Information is moving faster and to more parts of the world. More information is available. People can study the game more readily. So we are getting better and better players. People know how to copy cat.

Think about size matched with skill now. We have more serviceable 7 footers, or abouts there. Maybe not better greats. But better overall. Think about the Jazz and Ostertag. Holy cow. That dude was terrible. If that Jazz team were now, we easily could replace Ostertag with someone better.


Remember Jordan hitting those infamous 6 threes and he shrugs his shoulders? Hilarious. Players hit 6 threes on a regular basis now.

Or his infamous switching hands in the air? Thats not really all that impressive now. Kind of a dumb show off move really.

Look at how many guys can leap through the roof in the NBA now. Many guys have just as good as hops as Jordan in todays game and this was a big part of why he was so famous.
 
One more thing to add... No one in ANY SPORT has ever had as much hype/celebrity/fame as jordan with all the commercials, movies, the tongue, clothing line he is the most famous athelete ever.
More famous than muhummad ali, tiger woods, carl lewis or whoever so no matter what lebron does, even if he wins 10 championships and breaks a bunch of all time records, people will still have this michael jordan imprint on thier brains

In the U.S. jordan was probably as famous as the beattles, elvis pressley, or michael jackson.
Kobe (who is also close to as good as jordan imo) and lebron just have no chance to be considered greater than jordan, by the majority of people, no matter what they do.
 
Fabtrey said:
imagine kevin love playing in the 80's or 90's. i mean just look at him. he is so talented and athletic. he would make karl malone pee in his pants. barkley? lol that cute little 6ft 5 dude has nothing on great kevin love. i mean this white man has been top 3 in rebounds every damn year in this freaky athletic era.
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....your another guy who's obviously thrown his brains to the hogs! Karl Malone and Barkley would have Kevin Love on the bench with 4 fouls before the 2nd quarter was over! If he stayed in the game despite his foul trouble....he'd foul out before the start of the 4th quarter! Kevin Love is a nice player. I like his game. But to compare him with Karl Malone is, as Mike Tyson would say...."ludicrous!" Keven Love can do one thing...and one thing only better than Malone. Shoot 3's.....and that's it! He will end up 20,000 points less than Malone in his career.....15,000 less rebounds than Malone and probably less in EVERY other basketball category than Malone other than 3 point attempts and 3 point shots made! Now, we don't want to hear anymore comparisons to Malone.....unless you want us to come to your house and slap knots on your head faster than you can rub them!!! Kapesh?
 
carolinajazz said:
....your another guy who's obviously thrown his brains to the hogs! Karl Malone and Barkley would have Kevin Love on the bench with 4 fouls before the 2nd quarter was over! If he stayed in the game despite his foul trouble....he'd foul out before the start of the 4th quarter! Kevin Love is a nice player. I like his game. But to compare him with Karl Malone is, as Mike Tyson would say...."ludicrous!" Keven Love can do one thing...and one thing only better than Malone. Shoot 3's.....and that's it! He will end up 20,000 points less than Malone in his career.....15,000 less rebounds than Malone and probably less in EVERY other basketball category than Malone other than 3 point attempts and 3 point shots made! Now, we don't want to hear anymore comparisons to Malone.....unless you want us to come to your house and slap knots on your head faster than you can rub them!!! Kapesh?
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lol...

I think he is being sarcastic.
 
Look at Terrence Ross, a gai who averaged 9.3 points per gane went off for 51 points! The defense in the NBA today is mediocre at best..
 
Hack said:
Im not arguing that Lebron is better than Jordan as much as Im just arguing that its closer than you think. Your imagination has gone wild on you. Lebron would dominate the crap out of any era. If he had played at the exact same time as Jordan, and had a really good side kick like Pippen, its likely he gets a few chips during that era. And that would take away from how good Jordan is perceived. Lebron has had to play in the same era as players like Wade, Kobe, and Durant. Who are closer to Jordan's skill level than you think.

The fact is, there are just too many variables and what ifs to deal with to decide this. They are all great in their own right. They are all different players.

Jordan was the first model that came out. Now we have it being replicated more often because the NBA attracts more hopefuls every day. The money is a huge draw. The world population is growing. Information is moving faster and to more parts of the world. More information is available. People can study the game more readily. So we are getting better and better players. People know how to copy cat.

Think about size matched with skill now. We have more serviceable 7 footers, or abouts there. Maybe not better greats. But better overall. Think about the Jazz and Ostertag. Holy cow. That dude was terrible. If that Jazz team were now, we easily could replace Ostertag with someone better.


Remember Jordan hitting those infamous 6 threes and he shrugs his shoulders? Hilarious. Players hit 6 threes on a regular basis now.

Or his infamous switching hands in the air? Thats not really all that impressive now. Kind of a dumb show off move really.

Look at how many guys can leap through the roof in the NBA now. Many guys have just as good as hops as Jordan in todays game and this was a big part of why he was so famous.
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let me educate you. jordan scored 35 in the 1st half making 6 3s. THAT'S A FINALS RECORD for most points in the half. He was unconscious. and jordan wasn't known for shooting 3s. of course he shrugged. that year jordan attempted 93 3pters. it was down from 247 previous year 376 3fg%. that's respectable.

why did he stop shooting 3s? ask yourself why and it will enlighten you.
 
The Fresh Prince said:
Look at Terrence Ross, a gai who averaged 9.3 points per gane went off for 51 points! The defense in the NBA today is mediocre at best..
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once or twice year these guys will get hot. you will see more and more no name dudes getting hot at the right time. i hoop. it's my hobby. when nobody guards tight i probably make 50% in college 3 line. when i'm practicing alone, i make 75% of my 3s.

i'm sure guys like this rarely miss during practice.
https://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/4385/mirza-teletovic

as a matter of fact he got hot few days ago. scoring 34pts. making 7/11 3s


why do these no name guys all of sudden have offensive explosion?

1. defense. you'll rarely see defenders getting right up on your face and defend you like it's life and death. you don't see that kinda tenacious D anymore. bruce bowens of the world are missing from today's nba.

2. toughness. when you see melo getting super hot, and there is nothing you can do about it then what did old school players do? they knock dudes out. jordan rules.

3. no hand check - this is sorta related to #1. because of no hand check, you can't alter players position. you can't move them. you really can't get up on their face.


i watched that melo 62 pts game. yes, melo is a tremendous talent. but he had so many easy buckets. disgraceful.
 
Fabtrey said:
why do these no name guys all of sudden have offensive explosion?

1. defense. you'll rarely see defenders getting right up on your face and defend you like it's life and death. you don't see that kinda tenacious D anymore. bruce bowens of the world are missing from today's nba.

2. toughness. when you see melo getting super hot, and there is nothing you can do about it then what did old school players do? they knock dudes out. jordan rules.

3. no hand check - this is sorta related to #1. because of no hand check, you can't alter players position. you can't move them. you really can't get up on their face.


i watched that melo 62 pts game. yes, melo is a tremendous talent. but he had so many easy buckets. disgraceful.
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...another lost art in todays NBA is "ball denial!" When a guy gets that hot....the only way to slow him down is DON'T LET HIM GET THE BALL! Can't score without the ball, right? I know it's tough to do, but you only have to do it for 24 seconds in the pro's....and generally less than that since the tough shooters generally don't bring the ball up court! I don't even know that there are ANY good ball deniers in the whole league anymore, are there??? Devon Harris used to do it, but he quit doing it and is probably too old to try again!
 
carolinajazz said:
...another lost art in todays NBA is "ball denial!" When a guy gets that hot....the only way to slow him down is DON'T LET HIM GET THE BALL! Can't score without the ball, right? I know it's tough to do, but you only have to do it for 24 seconds in the pro's....and generally less than that since the tough shooters generally don't bring the ball up court! I don't even know that there are ANY good ball deniers in the whole league anymore, are there??? Devon Harris used to do it, but he quit doing it and is probably too old to try again!
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They still do that.
Hell i saw burks playing ball denial the other night in bradley beal..... worked really good too
 
LeBron is currently doin his thang on ESPN against the Clips. Bein clutch and all that jazz.
 
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