Should We Reward Good Students?

[green]

One Brow, it is a simple concept:

live below your means.

If you do this, then you will have money. Whether you make $1/hr or $1,000. As long as you spend less than you make, you will be ok.

Then guess what? If you do this, then teach your kids to do this, then you will leave something behind for them, and they will take that and keep building upon it. And if that happens for a couple of generations? Bruce ****ing Wayne.

Again, I don't care how much money you make, if you live below your means, you will die with money in your pocket.

Simple concept. Changes lives.

 

[green]

Would you tell someone they have to remain childless, because no one will offer them a better job? If they get pregnant, would you tell them they should have an abortion?

Absolutely not. BUT, I would tell them to live below their means. And if that means east St. Louis, then do it. Work two jobs, move in mom's basement, go to school. Work, work, work. Maybe mom can't stay home. Maybe you can't work 30 hours a week and watch tv. Maybe you work 30 hours a week and do 15 credits at college (I did). Work. Get rid of cell phones, internet, cable tv. Don't eat out. Learn to do some gourmet meals made out of ramen noodles and frozen veggies. It can be done.

The problem is the work part.

 

[VINYLONE]

One Brow, it is a simple concept:

live below your means.

If you do this, then you will have money. Whether you make $1/hr or $1,000. As long as you spend less than you make, you will be ok.

Then guess what? If you do this, then teach your kids to do this, then you will leave something behind for them, and they will take that and keep building upon it. And if that happens for a couple of generations? Bruce ****ing Wayne.

Again, I don't care how much money you make, if you live below your means, you will die with money in your pocket.

Simple concept. Changes lives.

This makes sense and it's an absolute in it's positive effect on the lives of people. Unfortunately, this concept runs counter to what our economy is based on. Consumption. Consumption via financialized debt products. Furthermore, the financial literacy in this country is incredibly low. There are many reasons but the the most important ones, in my opinion, are that these bad financial habits are generational and basic home economic concepts are rarely touched on in school and when they are it's basic and fleeting. But I agree with you.

 

[One Brow]

But, shouldn't we just eliminate poor people entirely? I'm really just talking to annoy you, it amuses me.

OK. I'm easy to annoy, and don't really care if you decide it's fun.

On a serious note, I like how you say that I attack people, yet you're the one calling me a bigot.

That's an interesting step in your thinking. All I did was point out that you were being rude, and that one of your sentences read as if it came from a bigot. You turned those statements into "attack people" and "calling me a bigot". Is that because you read your own intentions into what I said? Anyone can be rude accidentally. Anyone can make a poor choice of words that sounds bigoted. Generally, when these things are unintentional, I apologize for/acknowledge the error and try to do better in the future. Were they intentional on your part?

You also couldn't figure out the difference between "there" and "their", but that doesn't really matter.

You mean, I didn't point out your typo? Why would I bother?

As for my last question, I don't believe that abortion is ever a good option (unless it is a life or death situation, and even that is tricky). I just think that people in certain tax brackets should be a bit more responsible when it comes to having children if they cannot afford to provide for their kids. I just know that personally, while I would be grateful that their are programs to help people in that situation, if I was in that situation, I would want to do it on my own...so I want to be in a situation where I can afford kids before I have them. Maybe that plan won't work out, but I hope it does.

I agree everyone should be responsible. We all prefer not to get government help (or any other help) when we feel we have a choice.

Just one more thing, props to you for (hopefully) raising your kids well. I'm sure it's not an easy job. However I did notice that you didn't say what type of job your wife had at the time. I imagine that would make a difference in the income your household was bringing in.

At the time of my wife's first two pregnancies, I was already working two jobs. Later, we would sometimes each have a job. We both went through different jobs.

 

[One Brow]

Please tell me you are joking.

Among those who are the working poor (not in the poverty level and generally not getting any sort of government benefits), it's common to lose a job and have to take one that pays less.

 

[One Brow]

Absolutely not. BUT, I would tell them to live below their means. And if that means east St. Louis, then do it. Work two jobs, move in mom's basement, go to school.

If it meant I would die in a huge amount of debt, I would still get my kids into Belleville schools over East St. Louis schools (and it's not like Belleville is even above average). I plan to take on more debt to send them to college. some things are more important that worrying about your current "means".

 

[moevillini]

someone mentioned that rewarding perfect attendance is ridiculous, and I definitely agree - - but my daughter-in-law teaches at a small (180 students) inner city alternative high school and I like what they do - - they reward the entire school! The homeroom group with the top attendance percentage in the month of February will be able to go to see the CHICAGO BULLS in the first week of March; and 2) EVERY WEEK that our student body earns 90% attendance, the student body will earn PIZZA for lunch!

 

[moevillini]

I'm not exactly sure who among us it is, but I think some of us are living in a fantasy world.

 

[One Brow]

I'm not exactly sure who among us it is, but I think some of us are living in a fantasy world.

I would be surprised is some of us were not. Maybe some of us have fantasies a little closer to reality, maybe not.

 

[Stoked]

Among those who are the working poor (not in the poverty level and generally not getting any sort of government benefits), it's common to lose a job and have to take one that pays less.

But that's not what you said. You said "Obviously not, if you think they generally have kids while they are poor". Poor people have children they cannot afford all the time. They get pregnant while poor all the time.

Are there cases like you are now saying? Absolutely. People change income brackets all the time. But it is fact that some poor people have kids knowing that they cannot provide for them.

 

[One Brow]

But that's not what you said. You said "Obviously not, if you think they generally have kids while they are poor". Poor people have children they cannot afford all the time. They get pregnant while poor all the time.

I think I probably did go a little too far in the argument you criticized.

However, it's interesting having green tell me that the working poor really can afford those kids by cutting back, while you're telling me they can't afford them.

 

[Scat]

It always irritated me when my kids came home and told me about their friends that got paid money for every A they got. I told my kids that their reward for getting an A was not getting punished because they got a good grade.

Getting good grades should be expected.

 

[LogGrad98]

The pay for the A thing is irritating to me too. When my kids got straight A's we would usually do some kind of family activity to show them we were proud of them, but to make getting an instant and monetary reward the expectation for expected behaviors builds an unsustainable model of reinforcement for most kids. When they get to college and the parent maybe helping pay for it is the best reward they expect there can, and often is, a pretty big let-down. They need to learn the intrinsic value of doing a good job on whatever they try to do if they want to succeed in life in general.

 

[VINYLONE]

It always irritated me when my kids came home and told me about their friends that got paid money for every A they got. I told my kids that their reward for getting an A was not getting punished because they got a good grade.

Getting good grades should be expected.

The pay for the A thing is irritating to me too. When my kids got straight A's we would usually do some kind of family activity to show them we were proud of them, but to make getting an instant and monetary reward the expectation for expected behaviors builds an unsustainable model of reinforcement for most kids. When they get to college and the parent maybe helping pay for it is the best reward they expect there can, and often is, a pretty big let-down. They need to learn the intrinsic value of doing a good job on whatever they try to do if they want to succeed in life in general.

I agree with both of you.

 

[One Brow]

I agree with both of you.

I just read a study about kids doing art, in three groups (know they would get a reward, got areward without knowing it was going to happen, no reward). The first group rated their enjoyment of doing the art lowest.

 

[Stoked]

It always irritated me when my kids came home and told me about their friends that got paid money for every A they got. I told my kids that their reward for getting an A was not getting punished because they got a good grade.

Getting good grades should be expected.

The pay for the A thing is irritating to me too. When my kids got straight A's we would usually do some kind of family activity to show them we were proud of them, but to make getting an instant and monetary reward the expectation for expected behaviors builds an unsustainable model of reinforcement for most kids. When they get to college and the parent maybe helping pay for it is the best reward they expect there can, and often is, a pretty big let-down. They need to learn the intrinsic value of doing a good job on whatever they try to do if they want to succeed in life in general.

Is it expected? Absolutely. Does that mena no reward should be given? No. I do not/will not reward for every single A and every good test. But simetimes you have to throw a bone for a job well done. No different than a bonus at work. Sometimes acknowledgement of hard work is the right thing.

Basically rewarding students has its time and place.

 

[PearlWatson]

someone mentioned that rewarding perfect attendance is ridiculous, and I definitely agree - - but my daughter-in-law teaches at a small (180 students) inner city alternative high school and I like what they do - - they reward the entire school! The homeroom group with the top attendance percentage in the month of February will be able to go to see the CHICAGO BULLS in the first week of March; and 2) EVERY WEEK that our student body earns 90% attendance, the student body will earn PIZZA for lunch!

Group rewards for individual behavior has always seemed wrong to me, especially since the group can figure out the individual who cost them the reward.

 

[VINYLONE]

Is it expected? Absolutely. Does that mena no reward should be given? No. I do not/will not reward for every single A and every good test. But simetimes you have to throw a bone for a job well done. No different than a bonus at work. Sometimes acknowledgement of hard work is the right thing.

Basically rewarding students has its time and place.

*mean
*sometimes

I think most everyone would agree with you on this. There is nothing wrong with rewarding.

 

[Stoked]

I think most everyone would agree with you on this. There is nothing wrong with rewarding.

Fixed for you.

 

[moevillini]

Group rewards for individual behavior has always seemed wrong to me, especially since the group can figure out the individual who cost them the reward.

yeah that can happen, though in this type of situation it'd be difficult to pin it on any one individual.