If anyone cares, Big D visits Utah. 7 PM MST. 3/12/14.

[Hantlers]

I think what makes some people haters are the people who ONLY discuss a players flaws and never discuss a players positives. Im not saying that is you, but there are some posters that only talk about the negatives of kanter, and to a lesser extent, burks and burke

My post was more in reference to a certain faction of posters from a certain foreign country that think that anybody who says anything critical of Kanter is a "hater".

It's reminiscent of when Carlos Arroyo played here.

 

[orangello]

My post was more in reference to a certain faction of posters from a certain foreign country that think that anybody who says anything critical of Kanter is a "hater".

It's reminiscent of when Carlos Arroyo played here.

People from that certain country loved a Puerto Rican PG? Seems weird to me but what do I know.

Sent from the JazzFanz app

 

[fishonjazz]

GVC, you're fighting a losing battle. Matt Harpring has spent the last three years telling us how important it is to score impossible amounts of points per shot. Personally, I don't even look at a guy who scores less than 3 points per shot.

If I played in the NBA, I would never take a shot that wasn't a free throw. I would go down as the most efficient scorer to ever play the game. Infinity points per shot.

Hell i think the pps stat is so dumb that if i were a gm i would try to aquire players with the lowest PPS that i could find. That is probably the quickest way to a championship

 

[GVC]

It's not useless. Some of the best offensive players have very high PPS and it is a clear factor of their efficiency.

Drawing a foul is the best thing you can do with a possession.

Hell i think the pps stat is so dumb that if i were a gm i would try to aquire players with the lowest PPS that i could find. That is probably the quickest way to a championship

You're both missing the point. Nowhere did I say that, all else equal, higher points per shot is better. Nowhere did I say that drawing a shooting foul is a bad outcome. Who are you arguing with?

My point is that there are better measures that capture how efficiently players use possessions. Ignoring possessions that end in a shooting foul (or a turnover...or ignoring context) is not very smart.

Look at my example again.

Player A uses 11 possessions, scores 5 points and draws 4 fouls.
Player B uses 5 possessions, scores 7 points and draws 0 fouls.

Player B is contributing 1.4 points per possession. For Player A to contribute that much, his possessions have to be worth 11*1.4=15.4 points in total. Since all his points are scored at the line, this means that either those 4 shooting fouls have to be valuable as 15.4 points (3.85 points per shooting foul) OR they have to worth 10.4 points above the value of the free throws made (2.6 points per shooting foul above the value of free throws made). Effectively, you'd have to argue that the defense would be better off giving up a layup and turning the ball over on their next couple possessions than committing a shooting foul. That's ****ing ridiculous.

Yes, a shooting foul is just about the best outcome on a possession. Yes, higher points per shot is better. That doesn't mean points per shot is a good stat relative to other alternatives. True shooting percentage is MUCH better. If you think it undervalues drawing fouls, you can change the weight free throw attempts get in the denominator (below .44) quite easily. Points per shot is ****ing stupid.

 

[[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]]

I see that Burke shot a free throw last night. Awesome. Anybody got a .gif of that? Much rep

 

[fishonjazz]

Yes, a shooting foul is just about the best outcome on a possession. Yes, higher points per shot is better. That doesn't mean points per shot is a good stat relative to other alternatives. True shooting percentage is MUCH better. If you think it undervalues drawing fouls, you can change the weight free throw attempts get in the denominator (below .44) quite easily.

This is what is the type of post that should have originally been posted.
I can dig it

 

[candrew]

I see that Burke shot a free throw last night. Awesome. Anybody got a .gif of that? Much rep

Don't get too excited - it was off a technical.

 

[colton]

Player A uses 11 possessions, scores 5 points and draws 4 fouls.
Player B uses 5 possessions, scores 7 points and draws 0 fouls.

Player B is contributing 1.4 points per possession. For Player A to contribute that much, his possessions have to be worth 11*1.4=15.4 points in total. Since all his points are scored at the line, this means that either those 4 shooting fouls have to be valuable as 15.4 points (3.85 points per shooting foul) OR they have to worth 10.4 points above the value of the free throws made (2.6 points per shooting foul above the value of free throws made). Effectively, you'd have to argue that the defense would be better off giving up a layup and turning the ball over on their next couple possessions than committing a shooting foul. That's ****ing ridiculous.

Yes, a shooting foul is just about the best outcome on a possession. Yes, higher points per shot is better. That doesn't mean points per shot is a good stat relative to other alternatives. True shooting percentage is MUCH better. If you think it undervalues drawing fouls, you can change the weight free throw attempts get in the denominator (below .44) quite easily. Points per shot is ****ing stupid.

Does anyone actually track points per possession? That would be even better than your FT/2 adjustment to PPS, and seems it wouldn't be hard to do based on sites that now track every possession. And I think all would agree that that would be an excellent metric, no?

 

[GVC]

Does anyone actually track points per possession? That would be even better than your FT/2 adjustment to PPS, and seems it wouldn't be hard to do based on sites that now track every possession. And I think all would agree that that would be an excellent metric, no?

mysynergysports.com.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

You're both missing the point. Nowhere did I say that, all else equal, higher points per shot is better. Nowhere did I say that drawing a shooting foul is a bad outcome. Who are you arguing with?

My point is that there are better measures that capture how efficiently players use possessions. Ignoring possessions that end in a shooting foul (or a turnover...or ignoring context) is not very smart.

Look at my example again.

Player A uses 11 possessions, scores 5 points and draws 4 fouls.
Player B uses 5 possessions, scores 7 points and draws 0 fouls.

Player B is contributing 1.4 points per possession. For Player A to contribute that much, his possessions have to be worth 11*1.4=15.4 points in total. Since all his points are scored at the line, this means that either those 4 shooting fouls have to be valuable as 15.4 points (3.85 points per shooting foul) OR they have to worth 10.4 points above the value of the free throws made (2.6 points per shooting foul above the value of free throws made). Effectively, you'd have to argue that the defense would be better off giving up a layup and turning the ball over on their next couple possessions than committing a shooting foul. That's ****ing ridiculous.

Yes, a shooting foul is just about the best outcome on a possession. Yes, higher points per shot is better. That doesn't mean points per shot is a good stat relative to other alternatives. True shooting percentage is MUCH better. If you think it undervalues drawing fouls, you can change the weight free throw attempts get in the denominator (below .44) quite easily. Points per shot is ****ing stupid.

It's not ****ing stupid. If that is the only thing you look at then the person is stupid for just looking at one angle.

PPS is a valid stat to look at.

 

[GVC]

It's not ****ing stupid. If that is the only thing you look at then the person is stupid for just looking at one angle.

PPS is a valid stat to look at.

Do you ever have access to field goal attempts and not free throw attempts (or turnovers)?

Did you even read through my post? You seem to just be asserting it's not stupid without providing any justification. Are you really this dense?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Do you ever have access to field goal attempts and not free throw attempts (or turnovers)?

Did you even read through my post? You seem to just be asserting it's not stupid without providing any justification. Are you really this dense?

Have you not read my 20K+ post?