MVP
Well-Known Member
How about friendly wager? If they do not overpay would you self ban for a year?
Locke interviews Hayward
- Thread starter Beantown
- Start date
How about friendly wager? If they do not overpay would you self ban for a year?
orangello
Well-Known Member
GVC
Well-Known Member
There are only 58 players in the league making $10mm+ this season, and some of those guys are being paid primarily for their defense. $12mm for a third option on offense is incredibly steep, unless that dude is also a defensive stopper.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Just went through and looked at the #3 scorers on each team (looking at end-of-season rosters). 20 of 30 #3 scorers are not on rookie scale contracts. The average salary of these players this season was $10.6mm (using Boozer, not DJ Augustin, as Chicago's #3 scorer). A couple of these players also serve key defensive roles: Marc Gasol and Serge Ibaka. A bunch are considered terrible contracts: Bargnani, Carlos, David Lee, Rudy Gay, Eric Gordon (Deron, Deng, Bosh?).
The average salary of all 30 #3 scorers this season was $7.9mm.
Paying a player who is neither an offensive hub nor a defensive stopper $12mm+ per season is not smart.
The average salary of all 30 #3 scorers this season was $7.9mm.
Paying a player who is neither an offensive hub nor a defensive stopper $12mm+ per season is not smart.
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
It all comes down to value. What is 1/6th of the salary cap worth? Is that viable value for a third option? What about 1/5th of the salary cap? Is Hayward worth 1/6th and not 1/5th of the cap? That's a 2 million dollar difference..
I'd say percentage of cap is a better evaluator than pure dollars. That's why Kirilenko/Hayward comparisons are bad, here.
Looks like Kirilenko had a 6 yr, $86.463M dollar effect on the Jazz salary cap on the years he signed. A base of 10,983,000 with what looks to be annual raises hovering in the 12.5% range. The first year of the contract, Kirilenko took up 22.19% of the salary cap. Hayward's base, given the projected 2014-2015 salary cap numbers, would have to be 14 million dollars to match that. Max Hayward could receive as a base salary is 1/4th the cap, or projected 15.8 million.
Also, since max raises for Hayward would be 4.5% if he signs an offer sheet not with the Jazz, or 7.5% if he signs a Jazz offered contract, so his impact can't be as huge as Kirilenko's was even his fifth year, the max Hayward could sign for.
Kirilenko took up over 30% of the Jazz salary cap in his final year. An amazing number.
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How many of those were also facilitators and solid rebounders?
Sounds like most these 3rd option players are making much more than Hayward would be at $12mm.
$10.83mm. When you look at it as 1/6 - 1/5, I think going as high as $12mm is going to be solid value for the next few seasons.
The salary cap jump is going to do the Jazz a huge favor with his contract and Favors' current one.
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
I don't mean in term of raw numbers. I mean what kind of player and worth to the team can 1/6th of the salary cap get you. A raw number is easy to look up.
Differently put. Is a player of Hayward's caliber worth 1/6th of the salary cap? 1/5th? 1/4th?
fishonjazz
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GVC
Well-Known Member
10 of the 30 made $12mm+ this season. Only 3 of those were non-bigs: Deng, Gay and Gordon (3 terrible contracts...).
I don't see it.
3 big money key roles: Offensive hub #1 and #2, rim protector. 2 other key roles: 6th man (offensive hub #3), perimeter stopper. The Jazz can spend $12mm+ per season on at most 3 players. They've already used up one of those slots on Favors, who fills only one of the above roles.
Where does Gordo fit? Not a perimeter stopper. Probably not a legitimate second option (I have more confidence in Alec filling a 6th man role than Gordo filling any on-ball role). He's an average spot-up shooter, good fastbreak leader and team player. On a team with legitimate offensive hubs, you can get 90%+ of Gordo's production for much less than $12mm. If Gordo can be moved for picks at $12mm, I suppose signing him doesn't hurt, especially if it's on a 4-year (offer sheet) deal, since any incoming rookies won't have extensions that kick in until Gordo's contract expires. If Gordo's filling a role that warrants that kind of money, the Jazz are going to continue to stink.
I'm going off the new $65mm number, which changed everything for me. 12 and 12 for your 4th and 3rd leaves over two max contracts, plus Trey as an adequate 5th, plus an MLE every summer to buy the best championship hunting role players by paying way more than vet minimum, plus the bi-annual...
I didn't want Hayward at 12 per, but the new, and increasing even more down the road, makes 12 a potential value if there aren't any raises included.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
AK was incredibly overpaid, when we couldn't afford to be doing that. His deal was bad because it was backloaded, and in the era where contracts were way too long (that was the real problem). https://espn.go.com/nba/salaries/_/year/2010
^ look at what he was making in 2009-10 and 2010-11!
The Hayward contract will be a non issue since it will come off the books by the time our 14' dfraftees are up for extensions. Unless we are getting Lebron, there's no need to be such a douche about this.
AK was an all-star, but not a franchise player. In fact, he made the all-star team once, and then it was all downhill statistically for him. Hayward has AK type All-Star potential. He won't get the blocks AK got, but he'll get more assists, and could potentially get the rebounds.
GVC
Well-Known Member
$63mm?
If you have two players worthy of the max, isn't an actual knock-down shooter or perimeter stopper more valuable than Hayward? Can't those players generally be had for less?
If you're paying your top 4 ~$60mm, as you've suggested, you're left with ~$20mm under the tax to add ~10 players. That's not much.
It make might sense to match an offer sheet that pays Hayward $12mm per year, but I find it hard to believe he'll be worth nearly that much on a good team.
What role(s) do you see Hayward filling on a team with 2+ better on-ball players?