Looking for genuine discourse re:Jay-Z/NBA

[One Brow]

None. But you jumped on one single nuance to claim that he deemed all music from another culture as no music. A claim you do not have sufficeint evidence to support.

You're right, not all music, just that particular type of music.

 

[sirkickyass]

I'm sure he likes jazz

Not sure how you got there unless you know him personally.

The only thing I'm sure he likes is Dave Matthews Band, and that's based solely on the username.

How about being physically assaulted because I am white? Would that qualify as racism?

Oh no, that's right. You've already explicitly stated that racism can only go one way.

But I am sure you will try to pretend I am equating my victimization at the hands of racism to me making some claim that what I suffered is the same as what a black American (or simply anyone else) must suffer.

The nature of the way society has been laid out over the course of many many generations is that your recourse for such activity is markedly different than for the reverse scenario. That's why the same actions don't carry the same implications.

Studies indicate that the assailants against a white person would almost assuredly be punished more harshly. We had a very public trial with substantial race based overtones in the last 12ish months here in the United States where outright killing a black kid for no real reason went unpunished.

If you've ever studied the history of lynching for example, a big chunk of the ritual of it was that everyone in town knew who did the lynching. It wasn't just that violence, or even-race based violence, was used it was that the activity itself was de facto condoned by law. That's about the control of power over other human beings where your life is literally worth more than theirs. And that has not really changed on a widespread policy or social level. Things are not as extreme today, but the fact of violence against people of color being condoned by law is not as far back in the past as white people like to pretend. Again, we had that very public trial in the last year and there is no real movement by any politician of note to address the extreme systemic problems that today treat black lives as less valuable than white ones. When you see people write about disenfranchisement of black voters, the incidence of black imprisonment, or the structuring of our criminal code to inherently punish, on average, people of color more harshly you're really seeing a criticism of a society that has decided those lives are worth less.

Racism as a concept isn't reducible as easily as people who want to talk about dumbass concepts like "reverse racism" think. Everything about it is contextual or metacontexual. In the Office Space parlance: going to the dictionary and looking up money laundering doesn't mean you now know a damn thing about anything.

 

[One Brow]

He might have some.

Unless someone else is typing his posts, he does have some.

I simply think that this line of of that that his quotes on music is evidence of racism is uninformed. That's all.

I have already agreed that as a lone item, it would have been insufficient.

Also the bolded assertion is not something that I can not reconcile with your claim that racism only goes one way.

I know, but you're getting closer, step by step. Would you like me to spell it out again?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

It depends. With any music you can write the most basic structures, or follow the same chord progression/blueprint for a song and make it easy. Hip-hop producers like Madlib and J Dilla are extremely talented, but pretty much use sample based music to create beats, but in my eyes it's just as creative and unique.

In general, I just hate people who dismiss entire genres. Chances are you haven't explored the depths/roots/offshoots of that genre and are only commenting on the most generic version that is produced for the masses.

And there also numerous producers who actually play instruments and record their own samples to use in their beats.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Not sure how you got there unless you know him personally.

The only thing I'm sure he likes is Dave Matthews Band, and that's based solely on the username.



The nature of the way society has been laid out over the course of many many generations is that your recourse for such activity is markedly different than for the reverse scenario. That's why the same actions don't carry the same implications.

Studies indicate that the assailants against a white person would almost assuredly be punished more harshly. We had a very public trial with substantial race based overtones in the last 12ish months here in the United States where outright killing a black kid for no real reason went unpunished.

If you've ever studied the history of lynching for example, a big chunk of the ritual of it was that everyone in town knew who did the lynching. It wasn't just that violence, or even-race based violence, was used it was that the activity itself was de facto condoned by law. That's about the control of power over other human beings where your life is literally worth more than theirs. And that has not really changed on a widespread policy or social level. Things are not as extreme today, but the fact of violence against people of color being condoned by law is not as far back in the past as white people like to pretend. Again, we had that very public trial in the last year and there is no real movement by any politician of note to address the extreme systemic problems that today treat black lives as less valuable than white ones. When you see people write about disenfranchisement of black voters, the incidence of black imprisonment, or the structuring of our criminal code to inherently punish, on average, people of color more harshly you're really seeing a criticism of a society that has decided those lives are worth less.

Racism as a concept isn't reducible as easily as people who want to talk about dumbass concepts like "reverse racism" think. Everything about it is contextual or metacontexual. In the Office Space parlance: going to the dictionary and looking up money laundering doesn't mean you now know a damn thing about anything.

Dave Matthews Band, you can't get any whiter than that (yes, i know they have a black person in the band).

 

[8]

It depends. With any music you can write the most basic structures, or follow the same chord progression/blueprint for a song and make it easy. Hip-hop producers like Madlib and J Dilla are extremely talented, but pretty much use sample based music to create beats, but in my eyes it's just as creative and unique.

In general, I just hate people who dismiss entire genres. Chances are you haven't explored the depths/roots/offshoots of that genre and are only commenting on the most generic version that is produced for the masses.

No I'm pretty familiar with the genre. I was speaking more about the rapper, who is usually separate from the producer. Stil, his/her name is the one most associated with the product even though they can be the least musically knowledgeable person involved with its production. That's more to what I was referring.

Yes, this can be said about every other genre also

 

[Stoked]

Not sure how you got there unless you know him personally.

The only thing I'm sure he likes is Dave Matthews Band, and that's based solely on the username.



The nature of the way society has been laid out over the course of many many generations is that your recourse for such activity is markedly different than for the reverse scenario. That's why the same actions don't carry the same implications.

Studies indicate that the assailants against a white person would almost assuredly be punished more harshly. We had a very public trial with substantial race based overtones in the last 12ish months here in the United States where outright killing a black kid for no real reason went unpunished.

If you've ever studied the history of lynching for example, a big chunk of the ritual of it was that everyone in town knew who did the lynching. It wasn't just that violence, or even-race based violence, was used it was that the activity itself was de facto condoned by law. That's about the control of power over other human beings where your life is literally worth more than theirs. And that has not really changed on a widespread policy or social level. Things are not as extreme today, but the fact of violence against people of color being condoned by law is not as far back in the past as white people like to pretend. Again, we had that very public trial in the last year and there is no real movement by any politician of note to address the extreme systemic problems that today treat black lives as less valuable than white ones. When you see people write about disenfranchisement of black voters, the incidence of black imprisonment, or the structuring of our criminal code to inherently punish, on average, people of color more harshly you're really seeing a criticism of a society that has decided those lives are worth less.

Racism as a concept isn't reducible as easily as people who want to talk about dumbass concepts like "reverse racism" think. Everything about it is contextual or metacontexual. In the Office Space parlance: going to the dictionary and looking up money laundering doesn't mean you now know a damn thing about anything.

I fully acknowledge that the average member of a minority experiences racism in a much more effecting way in their day to day live, as well as dramtic incidences of violence, than I do. No contest.

One Brow, however, has clearly stated that racism can only go one way. I completely disagree. Clearly it tilts far more heavily one way than it does the other but that doesn't excuse the less effecting racism going the other way.

 

[Stoked]

Unless someone else is typing his posts, he does have some.



I have already agreed that as a lone item, it would have been insufficient.



I know, but you're getting closer, step by step. Would you like me to spell it out again?

No, you have done so enough times for me to regect, outright, your claim that racism is only one way.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

No I'm pretty familiar with the genre. I was speaking more about the rapper, who is usually separate from the producer. Stil, his/her name is the one most associated with the product even though they can be the least musically knowledgeable person involved with its production. That's more to what I was referring.

Yes, this can be said about every other genre also

Yeah, you can be rapper and have no musical (instrumental) ability, but still, being able to rap in different cadences/flows/speeds/breath control/etc. is a very difficult thing to do. Nearly every mainstream artist has real basic flows, but listen to a guy like Andre 3000, his mouth is a musical instrument within itself.

 

[8]

Yeah, you can be rapper and have no musical (instrumental) ability, but still, being able to rap in different cadences/flows/speeds/breath control/etc. is a very difficult thing to do. Nearly every mainstream artist has real basic flows, but listen to a guy like Andre 3000, his mouth is a musical instrument within itself.

Obvi

Have to have some sense of rhythm to be an adept rapper.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I fully acknowledge that the average member of a minority experiences racism in a much more effecting way in their day to day live, as well as dramtic incidences of violence, than I do. No contest.

One Brow, however, has clearly stated that racism can only go one way. I completely disagree. Clearly it tilts far more heavily one way than it does the other but that doesn't excuse the less effecting racism going the other way.

Genuinely confused as to what you mean when you say this.

Racism will never go away. Ideally, we want all racism to be as insignificant as racism against white people is. That would be an awesome world to live in. You can't get any lower than that level though.

 

[Stoked]

Genuinely confused as to what you mean when you say this.

Racism will never go away. Ideally, we want all racism to be as insignificant as racism against white people is. That would be an awesome world to live in. You can't get any lower than that level though.

Racism will never go away becuas ehate will never go away.

But One Brow has explicitly said that racism agaisnt whites is not racism. I disagree. Just because a minority suffers racism, and they do, does not excuse racism towards whites.

Racism is never justifiable.

Switch this up with any dynamic in any other country.