The Lakers, Kevin Love and the Utah Jazz
- Thread starter green
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Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Ummm...wouldn't Doublea be a Dukie?
Last time I saw a picture of Jabari, he definitely was NOT wearing a BYU jersey.
Doublea
Well-Known Member
You do realize I was arguing about not knowing who's going to be better with Kanter and Randle with this guy? Then he just brings up that I'm a byu fan because I think Jabari is a good basketball player.
Why do we need vets in a couple of years our young guys will be veterans of 4 to 7 years. That is plenty of experience on a team. Cap space does not win championship because what happens is the Jazz usually overpay for good FAs, they don't get FAs that take you to a championships. The Spurs have won championships because they have drafted well and implemented a system tailored made for their players. Duncan, Parker, Ginolibi and Leonard were all drafted by the Spurs, then they bring in solid vets who will play in their system.
It is too early to just start dumping our young guys and hope that we can land a superstar in FA.
green
Well-Known Member
Or just ask the commish to move Minn to the East. It worked for Paul and Al. ha ha.
I thought Love would want LA due to going to UCLA and it being LA, but ESPN put out an article today saying that LA wants him, but he told Minnesota that Chicago and GS are appealing to him.
green
Well-Known Member
We need vets because there is no one on this team that knows how to win in the NBA. Not a soul. So, we either stick with what we have, and hope our coach can teach them how to win, or they learn it on their own, or we bring in vets.
Lindsey keeps talking about bringing in vets and trades. I bet 1-2 of the "core 4" isn't here this fall. As of right now, the only people Lindsey has any loyalty to is Burke, Favors and Gobert. Those are the guys he brought in.
The Spurs are my point exactly. Duncan had Robinson. Parker had Johnson. There was Sean Elliot, Robert Horry, Rodman. Duncan's team was chock full of vets.
You need vets to win. If your goal is to make the playoffs next year, Burke, Burks, Hayward, Parker, Favors and Kanter isn't good enough.
So, what do you do? Do you build around the youth and stay young? Then if you do, you probably aren't making the playoffs next year either, so do you let a guy or two go and shoot for another top 10 pick, or keep a Burks/Hayward and shoot for a 13-14 pick?
Or, do you feel like you have your "superstar" and start building for winning? If you do this, then you move some of Burks/Burke/Hayward/Kanter for veterans that can be smart, know how to work, put up similar production as the players you moved (with maybe a lower ceiling) and get you wins now.
It probably all comes down to what pick we get in the draft. If we get a top 3 pick, you probably start building for the playoffs now.
If we get a 4+ pick, then you probably stick with the youth, lose one more year, then start bringing in vets.
Actually it isn't simple, it is just your opinion. No one knows what Randle will be in the NBA, it is purely speculation at this point. Same with Kanter, the difference is that at least Kanter has shown he can play in the NBA. What his ceiling is yet to be determine. Many anti-Kanter people expected Kanter to walk in and just be a stud because he was drafted #3. Kid has barely been playing basketball the last 4 years. His injury didn't help and he has several ways he can improve. The kid is freak'n 21 years old.
Plenty of players improve at their games well into there late twenties and early thirties if they want to do so. Kanter might not be an all-star because he is in the West and until the Jazz start contending he has little shot of doing so but if AK, Memo can make it so can Kanter. The only thing holding him back is his maturity and if he is willing to put the effort into it. However, I highly doubt that anyone can guarantee that Randle is a can't miss prospect considering he hasn't played one game in the NBA. No one knows at this point. Randle may be better and he may be worse but the difference mostly will be so small that arguing about it is nonsense.
As part of the trade, it isn't just Kanter that I have a problem with. Giving up Burks and the 23rd pick for an inferior player Budinger is just plain dumb.
orangello
Well-Known Member
Of course they are. He has more talent around him at both places.
Chi has:
Noah
Rose?
Butler
Everyone else is tradable to get him
GS has:
Curry
Thompson
AI
Bogut
Everyone else is tradable to get him
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Trashtalk
I guess you are assuming that vets know how to win. I am not against bringing in veterans who can still play but I do not want to dump young guys for inferior veterans. It is the coaches job to teach the players how to play and hopefully winning comes along with experience but experience is not a guarantee to winning.
green
Well-Known Member
That's why I like this team:
Burke/Livingston/Neto
Hayward/Hinrich
Wiggins/Buddinger
Favors/Randle
Gortat/Gobert
The right amount of youth (Burke, Hayward, Wiggins, Favors, Randle), vets who know how to win (Livingston, Hinrich, Gortat), and cap space (in four years, you are only committed to Wiggins and Randle, with two picks in 2017). That team makes the playoffs this fall. Plus, that is a team that a coach like Messina would want to coach. You have youth to mold, and vets to back you up.
Burke/Livingston/Neto
Hayward/Hinrich
Wiggins/Buddinger
Favors/Randle
Gortat/Gobert
The right amount of youth (Burke, Hayward, Wiggins, Favors, Randle), vets who know how to win (Livingston, Hinrich, Gortat), and cap space (in four years, you are only committed to Wiggins and Randle, with two picks in 2017). That team makes the playoffs this fall. Plus, that is a team that a coach like Messina would want to coach. You have youth to mold, and vets to back you up.
green
Well-Known Member
That's why I target Hinrich, Livingston and Gortat. All come off of teams that have been playoff teams. Hinrich has won everywhere he has been. Gortat went to the finals with Orlando and playoffs with the suns. His first year on Washington? Playoffs. Livingston spent the last year with a team full of Hall of Famers.
These guys have value on the court, but also off the court. Who better to learn how to be a professional from than Hinrich, tough, defensive player, Gortat, who has played with Nash, Howard, etc, and Livingston, someone who had his career taken away from him, fought back, and spent time around Hall of Famers (possibly 5+)?
fishonjazz
Well-Known Member
Contributor
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I dont like your original trade proposal to get to that roster (kanter burks #23 for budinger and randle)
But i do like that roster and the cap space you speak of.
The key would be getting gortat and wiggins. If you cant do that then the trade that i mentioned would be really bad
Jazz4ever
Well-Known Member
That lineup looks comparable to Washington, with the main talent at PG for them and SF for us. They went 44-36 this year, in the West we would miss the playoffs by 5 games.
Wall
Beal
Ariza
Nene
Gortat
green
Well-Known Member
Going along that roster, in two years you look like this:
Burke, Neto, rookie
Hayward/Hinrich
Wiggins/FA
Favors/Randle
Gobert/Gortat
You have an All-Star in Wiggins. You have potential All-Stars in Favors/Randle. You have MAX money and more. Plus you have two draft picks. That is when you make your push to keep Wiggins. You go out and find another max guy to bring in. You can move Gortat, Hinrich, Favors, Randle, Gobert (any combination of that group) plus first round picks.
I like the flexibility, I like the cap space, I like the talent. If you keep Kanter and Burks, you had better believe that this core can win a title:
Burke, Hayward, Burks, Favors, Kanter, Wiggins.
I'm not sure they can.
green
Well-Known Member
I agree, but their bench was...um...Gooden? Harrington? I think that our bench would be the difference maker, and take us from 44 wins (Washington) to the 48-50 range, which is playoff contention in the West.
May I suggest going back to lurking? *in a condescending, flight attendant-esque voice*
Doublea
Well-Known Member
I'd love to get him there, unfortunately it's looking like he will go lottery could even sneak into the top 10 with individual workouts.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
Yeah... Bummer.
akirac73
Well-Known Member
I though Burke was Ty Corbin's choice, and Favors came over in the D-will trade (KOC's doing). I don't think DL has loyalty to any of the current players (which may be a good thing).