Pres. Of Baskettball Operations Says Interesting Things About Draft, Tomic, and Neto...

[fishonjazz]

Yikes.

1. Charlie Villanueva scored 48 points in a game as a rookie. Maybe the Jazz should sign him to the max.

I wonder if there is a huge difference between signing someone to the max (which no one is suggesting the jazz do with kanter) and keeping a player who is on a rookie contract to see what he can do as a young player who hasnt played much.

Hmmmm, i bet there is a difference doe

 

[GVC]

"and1" Boozer? matador Boozer?
really?

Yes. Boozer was one of the best team-offensive players in the league when he played for the Jazz. It's highly unlikely Kanter's offensive peak is anywhere close to Boozer's.

Kanter is a better rebounder than anybody else Jazz have to offer (maybe except Favors )
He has his ways of scoring as well.
He may be a bad help defender, which means he is not that flashy and spectaular but he has proven time and again that he is willing to learn.
Corbin's team was bad, disorganized and severely misused. This year may be Kanter's year.
But I agree with you, it may be with another team.
Jazz will be the losers, if they trade him.

I'm not convinced. A year ago, I loved Kanter. His play and end-of-season interviews have soured me on him considerably. We'll see how it plays out.

 

[GVC]

I wonder if there is a huge difference between signing someone to the max (which no one is suggesting the jazz do with kanter) and keeping a player who is on a rookie contract to see what he can do as a young player who hasnt played much.

Hmmmm, i bet there is a difference doe

My point is that a single 4 assist game isn't terribly meaningful/predictive.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

"and1" Boozer? matador Boozer?
really?

Now, I know your posts and respect you, for you are one quality-poster of this forum, a rarity nowadays.
But you are mistaken on Kanter. Kanter is a better rebounder than anybody else Jazz have to offer (maybe except Favors )
He has his ways of scoring as well.
He may be a bad help defender, which means he is not that flashy and spectaular but he has proven time and again that he is willing to learn.
Corbin's team was bad, disorganized and severely misused. This year may be Kanter's year.
But I agree with you, it may be with another team.
Jazz will be the losers, if they trade him.

Kanter was 57th in Defensive rebound rate and 46th in overall rebound rate. Tied for 46th with the rebounding stalwarts Ed Davis, Marreese Speights, Chuck Hayes, and Timofey Mozgov.
The Jazz gave up 6.5 more points per 100 possessions with Kanter on the floor than when he was off the court.

And Boozer averaged a lot of assists for the Jazz. He was really good in half court offense. Kanter is respectable in one on one post offense and that's about it right now.

Kanter's been stunted on basketball intelligence growth through a lot of factors not of his own doing, ineligibility, lockout, injury, so he has a lot of room to grow into it. Took Jermaine O'neal a LONG time and a different team to get to all star level. How much longer can the Jazz extend the leash? Depends on Enes' next contract, I suppose.

 

[Tarkanian]

so you are using in your comparisons a Boozer, who played in a Sloan team with great players like DWill, AK and Memo?
Jazz of last year were as organized as a D-League team, at best.

 

[homeytennis]

Kanter was 57th in Defensive rebound rate and 46th in overall rebound rate. Tied for 46th with the rebounding stalwarts Ed Davis, Marreese Speights, Chuck Hayes, and Timofey Mozgov.
The Jazz gave up 6.5 more points per 100 possessions with Kanter on the floor than when he was off the court.

And Boozer averaged a lot of assists for the Jazz. He was really good in half court offense. Kanter is respectable in one on one post offense and that's about it right now.

Kanter's been stunted on basketball intelligence growth through a lot of factors not of his own doing, ineligibility, lockout, injury, so he has a lot of room to grow into it. Took Jermaine O'neal a LONG time and a different team to get to all star level. How much longer can the Jazz extend the leash? Depends on Enes' next contract, I suppose.

When Boozer was here DWill and Kyle Korver were here too. I'm not sure we are comparing apples to apples.

 

[fishonjazz]

My point is that a single 4 assist game isn't terribly meaningful/predictive.

I agree.
But i think it shows that its possible for him to pass the ball.

Maybe a better offensive coach/scheme combined with better teammates would create an increase in team play from kanter...... along with increased experience and maturity as he grows up.

You seem to have kind of given up on all of young guys rather quickly.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

I'm not convinced. A year ago, I loved Kanter. His play and end-of-season interviews have soured me on him considerably. We'll see how it plays out.

I think you read too much into comments made. I'm not too concerned about comments made not in a native tongue that can have lots of interpretation. I did see some willingness to make some passes from elbow/high post at the beginning of the year, but the failed attempts led Corbin to try to limit Kanter to his strong suits, namely one-on-one post play which turned out to be minorly helpful short term and malproductive long term.

 

[GVC]

SF killing it lately!
Corbin justified sending Kanter to the bench due to the Jazz record with him as a starter. When did Kanter start?

a. When the Jazz had a PG duo of Tinsley and JLIII. It wasn't long after the start of the season that Tinsley was released and Lucas was put in deep freeze. Do ya think Burke and Garrett are just a TINY bit better than Tinsley and JLIII?

b. Later in the season when Favors was hurt. Sure, take away ANY starter and the Jazz are going to struggle. Favors misses a game and the big rotation is Kanter, Gobert, Williams and Evans. Put Favors in and the rotation suddenly gets a LOT stronger

Food for thought:

Here are the relevant 3-player lineup stats:

Burke-Favors-Williams: 906 minutes; -22 overall; -1.17 per 48 minutes
Burke-Favors-Kanter: 394 minutes; -72 overall; -8.77 per 48 minutes

note: Burke, Favors, Kanter and Williams did not play together this past season.

 

[fishonjazz]

Kanter's been stunted on basketball intelligence growth through a lot of factors not of his own doing, ineligibility, lockout, injury, so he has a lot of room to grow into it. Took Jermaine O'neal a LONG time and a different team to get to all star level.

This

 

[NUMBERICA]

so you are using in your comparisons a Boozer, who played in a Sloan team with great players like DWill, AK and Memo?
Jazz of last year were as organized as a D-League team, at best.

Ah, yes, the BIG AL defense. Which even if true, Big Al never substantively improved.

 

[[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]]

I anticipate that Kanter's defense will improve with a full offseason of health.

His offense though? Right now, he is a poor man's Al Jefferson. That's being generous. We spent three years bitching about black-hole Jefferson (despite it bringing us a #4 offense in the league), and now we are pinning all of our hope towards a player who averaged 0.9APG with around 27mpg.


His court vision and BBIQ needs to improve, plain and simple. There have been flashes of nice Hi-Lo passes between Derrick and Kanter, but honestly his court-vision as a center leaves very much to be desired.

Let me play diary queen for a minute:

I agree with what you're saying here, but we all need to recognize that franklin was saying this stuff a while ago and getting killed for it.

 

[fishonjazz]

How much longer can the Jazz extend the leash?

So far he has had one season of decent minutes (on a horrible team as a backup to marvin freaking williams) so i would say the leash has not been extended all that much so far.

I think AT LEAST one more year

 

[[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]]

I wonder if there is a huge difference between signing someone to the max (which no one is suggesting the jazz do with kanter) and keeping a player who is on a rookie contract to see what he can do as a young player who hasnt played much.

Hmmmm, i bet there is a difference doe

dude, do I need to go bump the thread? Last year there was a "Kanter gettin teh MAX" thread and most people were agreeing.

 

[fishonjazz]

so you are using in your comparisons a Boozer, who played in a Sloan team with great players like DWill, AK and Memo?
Jazz of last year were as organized as a D-League team, at best.

Yup

 

[NUMBERICA]

I agree.
But i think it shows that its possible for him to pass the ball.

Maybe a better offensive coach/scheme combined with better teammates would create an increase in team play from kanter...... along with increased experience and maturity as he grows up.

You seem to have kind of given up on all of young guys rather quickly.

Making an assessment after three years isn't "quickly". You can do that rather accurately with most players.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

When Boozer was here DWill and Kyle Korver were here too. I'm not sure we are comparing apples to apples.

You do realize Boozer played in Utah his third year in the league without either of those two players, right?

 

[NUMBERICA]

dude, do I need to go bump the thread? Last year there was a "Kanter gettin teh MAX" thread and most people were agreeing.

I think I authored it. Mostly against the idea that Hayward was asking or was somehow going to get maxed. Which, hell, he still might.

 

[fishonjazz]

Let me play diary queen for a minute:

I agree with what you're saying here, but we all need to recognize that franklin was saying this stuff a while ago and getting killed for it.

Franklin also said burks sucks and would never be any good.

Oh and corbin is teh best

 

[fishonjazz]

dude, do I need to go bump the thread? Last year there was a "Kanter gettin teh MAX" thread and most people were agreeing.

Oh sorry bro, im talking from the present day in a discussion of whether we should give up on kanter all together or wait another year to see if he improves.

You should totally start a new thread about whether we should max kanter right now doe