Pres. Of Baskettball Operations Says Interesting Things About Draft, Tomic, and Neto...

[framer]

I think that's his point. Neither Gordo nor Favs made a huge jump from Year 3 to Year 4. For the most part, we already knew what we had in them after Year 3.

I'm pretty sure you can take a lot of what happened last year with a gigantic grain of salt. The only sensible thing that occurred last year was Biedrins being locked out of minutes. Jefferson got played minutes solely because he helped the tank. We actually gave JL3 time on the floor (even started him). I have played church ball with better players. We then rolled with a rookie point guard for a lot of the season, which almost no one does successfully. At the same time there appeared no attempt to teach the fundamentals of defense, or to put together a plan of any sort other than "force baseline." That may work in the rec league but there are a lot of NBA players that can play from the baseline (imagine that.) At the times when our young players found success they were openly criticized by the fans. It is imperitive that we put that crap in the rear view mirror this year.

 

[green]

Kanter is the new CJ Miles. Lol.

Some of us don't really like. Others of you think "if he could only get minutes, he'd be an all star."

Lol

 

[Jazz4ever]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfB6Y84vdW0

Here is a large compilation of Tomic highlights from the last year. He is pretty much the same player he was 6 years ago, just way more polished. He is even less athletic than Kanter, but has an old school game based on ball fakes that, along with being 7'2", should translate from an offensive perspective. His 64% true shooting is elite, especially considering he doesn't shoot three point shots. His assist rate has gradually climbed over his career, while his turnovers remained well in check, that might be the most appealing upgrade over Kanter.

Considering we are going to have to be paying Kanter 10 million+ a season soon, I think bringing Tomic over should be explored.

 

[green]

Jazz brings up another point: who wants to pay Kanter Boozer money? Unreal. Get rid of him. He's a nice player. Nothing ore.

 

[Fishsticks]

I'm always on the trade Kanter train.

 

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Ante Tomic: El Canasta Originale

 

[ema]

It's sad to see that some posters in this board who I considered as profound and wise basketball fans before just turned into simple haters. SMH

 

[cowhide]

I sometimes think many Jazz fans are bipolar. It wasn't just this past year where the majority of Jazz fans were in heaven with the Jazz moving up and grabbing Trey Burke, black Jesus. After getting hurt and struggling with his shot, people started complaining about him more than being excited he was on the team. Many people have suggested that he be traded after one year. Same thing with Hayward (should have drafted George), Burks (he sucked and we should have taken Leonard) now that he is showing promise people either say they love him or want to trade him. Now with Kanter, who came off a serious injury and was unable to do all the conditioning he did the previous year, gets blamed for the 1-14 start and many are saying he sucks and he can't improve even though he is only 21 and has had limited NBA experience sitting behind Millsap/AJ. Corbin jacked him around last year and never allowed him to shoot any 3pts. He took away his minutes even when he was playing well sometimes. At the end of the year he was playing better, both to single out Kanter as the only poor defender is ridiculous. The team finished 30th in defense so he had a lot of help.

I guess I am saying that many Jazz fans lack patience. Have you forgotten how many years it took S&M to make the Finals? It was at the end of their careers and not when they were 21 or 23 years old. It takes more than one or two or three years before a player or team reaches it's peak. If many of you were in charge the Jazz would be a bottom-feeder franchise for years. The bad franchises lose patience and start giving away draft picks and young players and end up being mediocre or lousy. Now there are exceptions but people need to be more patient with our young players. Next year I hope this team can show a big improvement. Maybe 15 games if they get the right coach, make a great pick, either re-sign Hayward or replace him and stay healthy. The following year I hope the Jazz can make/compete for a playoff spot..then another year win a playoff series or two.. then for a good stretch be a team in the top 4 in the conference and be battling for a championship. They may never will a championship but everyone needs to put away their crystal balls because no one really knows what our players will become.

I don't know if we have the right players but I like the direction the franchise is going. I've waiting since 1979 and can wait longer as long as the Jazz don't skip steps and start acting like some of its impatient fans.

 

[Doublea]

I sometimes think many Jazz fans are bipolar. It wasn't just this past year where the majority of Jazz fans were in heaven with the Jazz moving up and grabbing Trey Burke, black Jesus. After getting hurt and struggling with his shot, people started complaining about him more than being excited he was on the team. Many people have suggested that he be traded after one year. Same thing with Hayward (should have drafted George), Burks (he sucked and we should have taken Leonard) now that he is showing promise people either say they love him or want to trade him. Now with Kanter, who came off a serious injury and was unable to do all the conditioning he did the previous year, gets blamed for the 1-14 start and many are saying he sucks and he can't improve even though he is only 21 and has had limited NBA experience sitting behind Millsap/AJ. Corbin jacked him around last year and never allowed him to shoot any 3pts. He took away his minutes even when he was playing well sometimes. At the end of the year he was playing better, both to single out Kanter as the only poor defender is ridiculous. The team finished 30th in defense so he had a lot of help.

I guess I am saying that many Jazz fans lack patience. Have you forgotten how many years it took S&M to make the Finals? It was at the end of their careers and not when they were 21 or 23 years old. It takes more than one or two or three years before a player or team reaches it's peak. If many of you were in charge the Jazz would be a bottom-feeder franchise for years. The bad franchises lose patience and start giving away draft picks and young players and end up being mediocre or lousy. Now there are exceptions but people need to be more patient with our young players. Next year I hope this team can show a big improvement. Maybe 15 games if they get the right coach, make a great pick, either re-sign Hayward or replace him and stay healthy. The following year I hope the Jazz can make/compete for a playoff spot..then another year win a playoff series or two.. then for a good stretch be a team in the top 4 in the conference and be battling for a championship. They may never will a championship but everyone needs to put away their crystal balls because no one really knows what our players will become.

I don't know if we have the right players but I like the direction the franchise is going. I've waiting since 1979 and can wait longer as long as the Jazz don't skip steps and start acting like some of its impatient fans.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Here is a large compilation of Tomic highlights from the last year. He is pretty much the same player he was 6 years ago, just way more polished. He is even less athletic than Kanter, but has an old school game based on ball fakes that, along with being 7'2", should translate from an offensive perspective. His 64% true shooting is elite, especially considering he doesn't shoot three point shots. His assist rate has gradually climbed over his career, while his turnovers remained well in check, that might be the most appealing upgrade over Kanter.

Considering we are going to have to be paying Kanter 10 million+ a season soon, I think bringing Tomic over should be explored.

I dont know if he is a starter in the NBA or not. But I think if we bring him over we must bring neto as well to run the second unit. Those two would be a great pnr combo.

 

[r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t]

Back to the topic: If Tomic is willing to come over, the Jazz should do it.

and use Kanter to swap picks and get into the top 4. sure Favors/Tomic might suck but maybe not as bad as Favors/Kanter.

 

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I think a lot of Tomic's offense will translate. He's obviously really smart and can score in a few ways. I worry about his defense.

Still, they should bring him over. I think he'd be great off the bench for a while, and I can even see him pushing for a starting job (depending on whom we draft)

 

[ema]

He's definitely better than both Evans and Williams but I don't think Favors/Tomic would be a better duo than Favors/Kanter. I have high hopes for Gobert too, I really don't think Tomic is worth to ditch Kanter or waste Gobert's minutes. Plus the smallest role that Tomic would demand is the third big/main bench big, because he is the main big in one of the best teams in Europe. Maybe only if we let go both Marvin and Evans it might be suitable.

Like maybe,,

Kanter 30 mins
Favors 32 mins
Tomic 20 mins
Gobert 14 mins

Still, looks problematic to me though. I don't believe Tomic would be up for only 20 mins, and 14 mins isn't good for Gobert to me. And anything under 30 mins for Favors/Kanter would make me a Lakers fan anymore. However, Tomic would be a good trade asset for us with teams that need decent rotational offensive big man with length(until they realize that Tomic doesn't play up to his size).

I'm ok with that line of thinking but, the thing is with Gobert, you can actually keep him in play longer without sacrificing too much since he's already a very decent defender, meaning we can really develop him and develop him fast, after all it's gonna be a rebuilding year again, right? My preference would be 18-22 mins for Gobert and the filler big to fill the remaining 12-16 mins. Of course there will always be also a fifth big in the team to keep just in case a la Biedrins or a SF that can occupy some PF mins so the mins will be even more scarce to distribute among the bigs sometimes.

And one another thing I just noticed is the PF shortage in Tomic's presence with our young bigs. Out of Favors/Kanter/Gobert/Tomic, the only one who would be able to play as close to a PF is Favors. Gobert and Tomic can't play PF in no way and Kanter can play it only offensively. So if those four players are in the roster, a fifth big man has to clog a considerable amount of time at PF position.

I think it can only work, in the case of a Kanter trade like Vermin suggests, or the sacrificing of Gobert completely. If we can get a worthy asset/assets in return of a Kanter trade, it might be thinkable. Otherwise I can't see a reason to give up on Gobert, unless he could be a part in an irrefutable trade also.

I got tired of writing about Tomic. Just bring him over. I want to see people to see with their own eyes that how he's not a better defender than Kanter, how he can't jump even a fourth of Kanter can, how he cannot play upto his great length and size, how he cannot block a lick, how he's not a better rebounder than Kanter and how his smart offensive play is not much better than Kanter's brainless raw offense.

I like Tomic as a player because I like polished finesse players always but it just annoys me that people claim that he is much better than Kanter while it's obvious that they are only pretending to know about Tomic.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I got tired of writing about Tomic. Just bring him over. I want to see people to see with their own eyes that how he's not a better defender than Kanter, how he can't jump even a fourth of Kanter can, how he cannot play upto his great length and size, how he cannot block a lick, how he's not a better rebounder than Kanter and how his smart offensive play is not much better than Kanter's brainless raw offense.

I like Tomic as a player because I like polished finesse players always but it just annoys me that people claim that he is much better than Kanter while it's obvious that they are only pretending to know about Tomic.

Even if he is not better than Kanter this is a good year to bring him over. We have lots of cap space and can overpay him this year to see what he is in the NBA. As far as replacing Kanter that seems a bit much. You should not bring him over to start him, bring him over to get decent minutes off the bench.

 

[fishonjazz]

Kanter is the new CJ Miles. Lol.

Some of us don't really like. Others of you think "if he could only get minutes, he'd be an all star."

Lol

I dont think there are many who think he will be a star.
I think the majority feel the way i do..... which that i dont pretend to know how good he will be but im not ready to call him garbage and give up on him since he is a very inexperienced 21 year old who has yet to get major minutes on a team trying to win with a quality coach.

The jazz dont get 3rd overall picks every year so forgive me for not giving up on kanter before his rookie contract is even up.

Some people want to call kanter garbage and turn around and say that jabari is a sure thing all star player.

I will wait to judge kanter for at least one more year.

 

[fishonjazz]

Jazz brings up another point: who wants to pay Kanter Boozer money? Unreal. Get rid of him. He's a nice player. Nothing ore.

Kanter is still under his rookie contract next year. No need to worry about boozer money yet

 

[Deleted member 848]

Let me play diary queen for a minute:

I agree with what you're saying here, but we all need to recognize that franklin was saying this stuff a while ago and getting killed for it.

More Pulitzer material from NAOS, soon after complaining about the trend of Jazzfanz-malaise.

Making an assessment after three years isn't "quickly". You can do that rather accurately with most players.

It isn't quick, but it isn't definitive either. Kanter is still quite unpredictable in terms of fans being able to predict the trajectory of his development. Him coming in great shape this coming season (which has happened once already) could be huge for his development.

I still believe in Kanter, but the dude has to come to camp in super shape this year. I know last year he had the whole shoulder injury deal, but still his lack of conditioning was alarming.

And say what you want about Richard Jefferson, but his end of season interview was eye opening when he said Kanter didn't believe defense was that important.

all of this. I only started contemplating trading Kanter when the 5th pick slotted us with Vonleh.

 

[Deleted member 848]

I dont think there are many who think he will be a star.
I think the majority feel the way i do..... which that i dont pretend to know how good he will be but im not ready to call him garbage and give up on him since he is a very inexperienced 21 year old who has yet to get major minutes on a team trying to win with a quality coach.

The jazz dont get 3rd overall picks every year so forgive me for not giving up on kanter before his rookie contract is even up.

Some people want to call kanter garbage and turn around and say that jabari is a sure thing all star player.

I will wait to judge kanter for at least one more year.

the only thing that gives me hope with Kanter is that it feels like his game has regressed due to him being out of shape. I'm expecting his rebounding and defense to improve.


What worries me, is his offensive BBIQ. There's really been minimal improvement on that front since his first year. 27mpg over the course of a season ain't bad either. Hopefully this area is an area of improvement for him next season.

 

[ema]

Even if he is not better than Kanter this is a good year to bring him over. We have lots of cap space and can overpay him this year to see what he is in the NBA. As far as replacing Kanter that seems a bit much. You should not bring him over to start him, bring him over to get decent minutes off the bench.

That's fair enough. As a matter of fact, I would not be opposed to that idea if we didn't have Gobert and if I could believe that Tomic would be OK with modest playing time. But I'm pretty high on Gobert and want this year to be a better rebuilding year that the youngs get full chances than the previous pointless seasons.

Trade Kanter and picks for a PG(pick or a current one), draft a PF(ie Vonleh), make sure that Gobert will have his minutes and chance to develope and improve and bring Tomic over to be the 2nd/3rd big. Now that's a legit plan. Very good FC with Favors/Tomic/Vonleh/Gobert. You have length and defense in Gobert and Favors, stretching the offense with Vonleh and finesse play with Tomic. So do it in a fashion.

But just don't ruin the front court with purposeless crowd and don't pretend that Tomic is better than Kanter without knowing anything about his game.

 

[r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t]

The jazz dont get 3rd overall picks every year so forgive me for not giving up on kanter before his rookie contract is even up.

Some people want to call kanter garbage and turn around and say that jabari is a sure thing all star player.

I will wait to judge kanter for at least one more year.

You have to give something to get something. Kanter is an asset and we could cash him in for something potentially better.

How about Kanter, our pick, and the future GSW pick to Milwaukee for the #2 pick? Assuming Tomic would never consider coming here if both Favors and Kanter were on the team, we'd be clearing the way for him. From our perspective the trade would be:

Jazz receive: Parker/Wiggins and Tomic
Bucks receive: Kanter (Sanders insurance), their choice of PG (Exum or Smart), and the future pick

Our starting lineup:

Burke
Hayward
Parker/Wiggins
Tomic
Favors

Sure, our bench would be thin but isn't that still progress?