carolinajazz
Well-Known Member
....thanks for that tid bit of info!
Why the Spurs Won
- Thread starter Getting Traded
- Start date
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Tim Duncan has escaped TBOAT talks for years mostly because of his boringness. However, can't he now make a case for being better than magic and larry? Other than Jordan, who's better than the big fundamental?
Duncan recently sparked an interest in me watching old film. Dude was nuts. Could shoot the banker, could shoot the baseline, could post up, could shoot the hook... What we see now is merely a shell of what once was his devastating offensive game and yet he's still amazing.
5 rings, 2 MVPs, 3 Finals MVPs.... He's higher than Kobe, right?
Other than MJ, who's better than the big fundamental?
The funny thing is, if he and Mills come back next year, aren't they basically locks for the WCF again? If they can escape the west, aren't they basically guaranteed to win another title? The east is such a disaster area. All 8 WC teams would have romped the EC (other than Miami).
What happens if Duncan finishes with 6??? :0
Duncan recently sparked an interest in me watching old film. Dude was nuts. Could shoot the banker, could shoot the baseline, could post up, could shoot the hook... What we see now is merely a shell of what once was his devastating offensive game and yet he's still amazing.
5 rings, 2 MVPs, 3 Finals MVPs.... He's higher than Kobe, right?
Other than MJ, who's better than the big fundamental?
The funny thing is, if he and Mills come back next year, aren't they basically locks for the WCF again? If they can escape the west, aren't they basically guaranteed to win another title? The east is such a disaster area. All 8 WC teams would have romped the EC (other than Miami).
What happens if Duncan finishes with 6??? :0
Truth is:
A lot of Spurs run have been ended short because of injuries in the past. Their maintenance program gives them a good chance to be healthy at the end of the season but it is no guarantee as you could see last year and years before.
But at least they have a chance which is impressive given the age of their core.
Damn. My respect for TD keeps growing and growing. He is the boss.
Favors will be our TD.
TD has a great top 6-7 career. but he will never pass magic. that's just me. because i value magic's unique skillset over TD game. and magic went to 9 championships in 12 years in the greatest era. just think about that. i'm also struggling to put him ahead of bird. Bird had much better peak and he played in a tougher era and took his team 5 championship games in his peak. 5 championship in 7 years. and in his peak he won 3 mvps and was the unquestioned best player in the league. was duncan the best player at any point of his career? IMO, even in his mvp years i can argue shaq was still better player.
but i can definitely understand taking TD over bird because TD had longer career and his overall career achievement is hard to ignore.
this is how my list look like. it's changes every damn time.
TD has secured his top 7 spot because his career achievement.
1. Jordan
2. Magic (9 championship in 12 years, 5 rings, 3 mvps, 3 fmvps)
(i really struggle ranking wilt/kareem/russell - honestly you can swap any of these guys.)
3. wilt (i just can't ignore his dominance on both ends of the floor)
4. kareem (6 rings, 6mvps, greatest bulk stat)
5. russell (11 rings)
6. bird (2nd greatest peak ever)
and then there are these 4.
7. duncan
8. shaq(much higher peak)
9. bron (4 mvps, 5 championship appearances, 2 rings, 2 fmvps)
10. kobe
shaq was undoubtly better basketball player than duncan ever was. he was much more dominant. but shaq goofed around and didn't take the season seriously sometimes. he got overweight and missed 10-20 games in his peak years. but his finals performance is hard to ignore. and he took 3 teams to a championship. with wade he was a great 'robin'. but duncan has the career & ring edge. honestly, i really don't mind putting shaq above duncan. it's really close. Bron will eventually pass both shaq and duncan IMO. bron's been the best player for 6-7 seasons in his 11 year career. bron can be top 3 all time. him losing another championship does hurt him a little, but he is only 29.
and then you have
11. oscar
12. hakeem
13. jerry west
14. moses malone
15. elgin baylor
IMO, even if duncan wins more wings i doubt he can crack top 5 all time. but i have him at #7 which is still a great achievement. but eventually Bron will push him out of top 7. but TD most likely has secured his top 10 spot for a long time.
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MVP
Well-Known Member
nah... you are way overrating teams like Dallas, Memphis and Houston. Toronto for example had 5-1 record vs them... and blew out Memphis in both games. Indiana would certainly beat all those 3 in playoff series as well. Washington, Brooklyn and Chicago could make it a series here as well.
MVP
Well-Known Member
Dude how can you rank Kobe lower than LBJ? Seriously?
because
1. Bron destroys kobe in mvps. 4 to 1.
2. I know kobe has 5 rings, but Bron didn't have a peak shaq. Imagine if bron is #2 option. he would thrive. so IMO championship argument is a wash.
3. Bron has better stats. much more efficient. in both regular season and the playoffs
It's close. in 4th qtr i take kobe over bron easily. aesthetically Kobe's game is better to look at. top 3 greatest scorer of all time. but if i'm building a team, i build around bron. and i can't ignore superior stats and 3 more regular season mvps. and bron will only climb up.
1. Bron destroys kobe in mvps. 4 to 1.
2. I know kobe has 5 rings, but Bron didn't have a peak shaq. Imagine if bron is #2 option. he would thrive. so IMO championship argument is a wash.
3. Bron has better stats. much more efficient. in both regular season and the playoffs
It's close. in 4th qtr i take kobe over bron easily. aesthetically Kobe's game is better to look at. top 3 greatest scorer of all time. but if i'm building a team, i build around bron. and i can't ignore superior stats and 3 more regular season mvps. and bron will only climb up.
carolinajazz
Well-Known Member
"How did the Spurs make King James and the Miami Heat look like the Washington Generals? Unselfishness + High basketball IQ + Shooting ability = Championship-winning formula."
"In Game 3 alone, San Antonio passed the ball 93 more times than the Heat. And if you don’t think that is impressive enough, in Game 4 the Spurs passed it 113 times more than Miami. That stat right there is all you need to know... Ball movement wins games!"
"There’s no star preferential treatment in San Antonio, and the players respect that. If the superstars buy in, everyone buys in. Can you imagine a Carmelo Anthony or Kobe Bryant doing any of the above?"
...bottom line, the "hip hop" self-aggrandizement, give me the ball and clear out of the way basketball slop, was put out of it's misery....for at least another season. But ESPN and all of the other sports writers will be back jumping on the bandwagon of the next "duperstar" who feels he can take over a game and win it all by himself. Frankly, I'd love to see the Heat stay together and then pick up Crymello Anthony for next year! They'd crash and burn just as fast as this Heat team did against next years Spurs team!
MVP
Well-Known Member
Who cares about regular season MVP? Nash has 2 MVP's, he must be better than Kobe as well?.
And Lebron could not win ring without Wade and Bosh either.
carolinajazz
Well-Known Member
....actually, he should have 3 MVP's.....he was robbed of a third by some bogus voting!!! Had the Mav's stayed with Nash.....he would probably have more rings than Kobe!
hope you didn't honestly compare wade/bosh to a peak Shaq. i consider a peak shaq top 3 greatest player of all time. 1. jordan 2a bird 2b shaq.
and regular season mvp is probably the most important statistical achievement. it means bron stayed on top of the mountain more. and mvp is given out to a dude who has the stat and wins. i can't ignore that. bron was considered the best player for a while now. there is no dispute who is the man in the nba. and i don't know about you, but i'm very high on nash. top 6 PG of all time.
and i know it's unfair to kobe, but i can't give too much credit to his first 3 rings. he was a great robin. he really was. i'm a big kobe guy. he was nasty. but when you have shaq, everything becomes easier. you put bron as a robin playing with peak shaq, that's an easy 65+ win team every year and bron who love to pass would make shaq dominate even more. Shaq was an absolute beast.
overall it's close, but IMO bron already accomplished more. again, i take kobe in the 4th qtr. i take kobe to take that last shot. in a close game, i would rather have a kobe. but to start a franchise i take bron.
i enjoy watching kobe much more than bron by the way. much more aesthetically pleasing. dude was so creative. kobe wasn't as athletic as MJ, but was pretty close in his prime. loved his assassin mentality. it came to bite him few years, but that's just who he is, a natural born killer.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
If you wanted to get even more specific... Kobe and shaq needed help in 02 game 6.
That game was specifically mentioned by Donaghy as a game fixed by the officiating. If you watch the game on YouTube, you'll have no doubt that it indeed was. The kings win that game, the lakers dynasty is cut short.
To this day I've never seen a game called so blatantly one-sided.
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
Just read that Boris Diaw led both teams in assists, and had the 2nd most rebounds for the Spurs.
There you have it. Completely gutted that Heat team. It was a blast to watch. Having Manu, Tony, Patty, and Boris all as PGs wreaked absolute havoc on the Heat defense.
There you have it. Completely gutted that Heat team. It was a blast to watch. Having Manu, Tony, Patty, and Boris all as PGs wreaked absolute havoc on the Heat defense.
![[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]](/data/avatars/m/2/2497.jpg?1511131091){kind=avatar}
[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]
Well-Known Member
I'll say it again:
After the slow start with the Mavericks, the Spurs' postseason was the most beautiful bball I've ever seen.
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
[size/HUGE] fixed [/size];850608 said:
Yeah, I'm very perplexed as to how the Mavs took it to them so well. I completely doubted them after that series (had the Blazers winning in 6 as you know), but I underestimated the impact of Diaw and Mills. Stoked for both players-- I like their games.
spycam1
Well-Known Member
Can we draft Kyle Anderson at #23, please?
carolinajazz
Well-Known Member
.....this is where your credibility takes a serious hit! The ONLY player of those 3 that could even sniff Mount Rushmore would be Jordan. He's got rings and stats. Bird and Shaq? Not even close! You've completely overlooked Kareem Abdul Jabbar, who has more rings and stats than just about anybody, you have overlooked Chamberlin who also has two rings and more career stat records than Bird and Shaq combined.....and you've left out Magic Johnson! Heck, you've got to put Duncan ahead of Bird and Shaq for both of those reasons, as well! By the way, Shaq would not be on anybody's top 20 list for greatest NBA players of all time.....if they had half a brain and eyes to see with!
i said 'peak'. look it up. obviously you have no idea what that means because you keep bringing up 'career' argument.
duncan's peak was not even close to shaq's peak. shaq's 3peat run is considered top 3 all time by many. not just me, but many reputable analysts.