The Thriller
Well-Known Member
The unofficial cheerleader for Gordon Hayward is doing his best to drum up support for his boy!
Nice job CY.
Nice job CY.
Hayward has agreed to an offer with Hornets
- Thread starter The Midnight
- Start date
Game6Conley
Well-Known Member
remember those words.
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
And the Suns are apparently chasing LeBron until he signs elsewhere.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Buh-bye Gordon.
The fact that he signed this deal with a trade kicker indicates to me he has already checked out of Utah. Let him go. I don't care that Utah has cap space. I'd rather see Marvin return at $7M than Hayward at the max. Hayward has the career trajectory of AK. What did he do last summer; did he work on his shooting? Maybe he isn't in to Russian novels, but he likely plays more video games than actually working on his game.
Yes, the Jazz have cap space NOW and will have for 4 years. But what happens after that? GH will be an UFA and will want a max contract of $20M. This guy has delusions of grandeur; he thinks he's Kobe Bryant. But he doesn't have the toughness nor competitive drive.
The fact that he signed this deal with a trade kicker indicates to me he has already checked out of Utah. Let him go. I don't care that Utah has cap space. I'd rather see Marvin return at $7M than Hayward at the max. Hayward has the career trajectory of AK. What did he do last summer; did he work on his shooting? Maybe he isn't in to Russian novels, but he likely plays more video games than actually working on his game.
Yes, the Jazz have cap space NOW and will have for 4 years. But what happens after that? GH will be an UFA and will want a max contract of $20M. This guy has delusions of grandeur; he thinks he's Kobe Bryant. But he doesn't have the toughness nor competitive drive.
Uh, there is a thing called joking around. You should look it up. All the kids are doing it.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Jazz tried to sign him last year and he wouldn't agree to terms. You can bet Lindsey made another offer on July 1st. Should Utah have offered a max deal last summer? No, they wanted him to prove he was a max player. Did he?
IMO, what Utah discovered last season is Hayward's "value" is not as a max player. Charlotte is paying a huge premium to try to get him away from the Jazz. TBH, we have a couple of very good SG prospects in Burks and Exum (Dante as a combo guard). And the league is full of SF's; that's the easiest position to fill. Jazz matching this offer sheet would be a HUGE mistake.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Locke covers the entire issue pretty well here:
www.weareutahjazz.com/lockedonjazz/2014/07/09/insider-faq-on-gordon-hayward/
It is a fair "big picture" evaluation of the current situation. Everybody agrees that GH is not a "max player", whatever that means. That is not the question that DL has to decide upon.
Doc Cherno
Well-Known Member
Charlotte apparently also offering two cases of 6 point beer. No point in continuing this thread now...
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Karl Malone, John Stockton, Tim Duncan...
There are many examples of guys around the league taking less so their team can be better. Heck, even Derrick Favors understands the concept. This is not like making $20K and getting an offer from XYZ company for $40K. That's when you take the money so you can "provide" for your family. Jazz would have gladly paid Gordon the same as Favors in order to leave room for the other key players as they came up for contracts. Gordon kind of reminds me of Justin Bieber; he's just enamored with personal fame (his web site, gaming fetish, etc.). But part of the blame can be placed back on Corbin and Lindsey for that disaster of a season. Gordon was miserable and he wanted out. Please, Dennis...give him his wish.
Hantlers
Well-Known Member
Hayward is going to get matched by Utah. He's a good, homegrown talent, and you don't let those players leave.
You have to remember we are the Utah Jazz...if we want a player of Hayward's caliber, we are going to have to overpay...it's not like a lot of players are going to want to come here without a lot of money.
You have to remember we are the Utah Jazz...if we want a player of Hayward's caliber, we are going to have to overpay...it's not like a lot of players are going to want to come here without a lot of money.
Hantlers
Well-Known Member
You're a total, and complete moron.
Rarely do players take paycuts for the better on the team on their 1st major contract.
![[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]](/data/avatars/m/2/2497.jpg?1511131091){kind=avatar}
[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]
Well-Known Member
This **** is bananas. B-A-N-A-N-A-S.
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
All good points. The part in bold is one that I've been bouncing around in my head since the announcement. Did he earn this contract? If the Jazz match, it will be because they think that he has the potential to earn the contract. It's not based on what he's done so far, but what they expect him to do moving forward. I think that the team set him up to fail. I think that they knew this team would be a dumpster fire under Ty Corbin as a lame-duck coach and they're not holding it against their players because of that.
I don't think that any of the young players have really been developed well at all - that includes Hayward. He was given the chance to be "the guy" on a team in transition, losing it's top two assets (Jefferson and Millsap) and not having any clear direction or system on offense or defense. What the hell did people expect to happen? I'm pretty sure that the results match the organization's intent. Hayward should have stepped up more as a leader and as a #1 option, but I think that playing for the worst head coach in the league - who's trying desperately to save his job - is bound to have a negative impact on any young player.
I don't think he's worth the full max contract. I had it pegged around $13 or $14 million. I'm 90% certain that the Jazz will match this contract. Can he live up to those lofty expectations under a new coach who is known for his player developmental skills? I sure as heck hope so.
I think that Gordon Hayward with a clearly defined role on his team and improved players around him is a guy that most teams would want to have. I ask myself what kind of contract we'd have to offer him if he had played for the Suns last year under Hornacek. . . I'm pretty sure that it would be a MAX contract and we'd be talking about him with the type of reverence some have shown towards Bledsoe, Parsons and/or Monroe. In fact, we'd probably be talking about how Utah is a Free Agency Dead Zone and "Why the hell would Gordon Hayward even want to come here when he has other options out there?" The plain and simple fact is that he doesn't have a choice and he doesn't have any options if the Jazz choose to match the contract. He's been professional about this whole situation and people continue to bash him for trying to maximize his value. In the world of highly competitive sports, it only takes one team that loves you to make a ridiculous amount of money. Gordon Hayward is worth this contract as much (if not more) than Roy Hibbert or Eric Gordon or Jrue Holliday were of getting their MAX contracts in RFA. At least Gordon Hayward hasn't gone out and begged the Jazz not to match the contract. He's played his hand perfectly and is about to get paid a lot of money because he bet on himself. I think he has a lot more intelligence and confidence than many posters around here are willing to admit.
I don't think that Chandler Parsons, Eric Bledsoe or Greg Monroe have earned MAX contracts either, but with all the cap space out there this offseason, it wouldn't surprise me to see any of them get a deal similar to what Hayward is getting. They're all getting overpaid regardless. . . Do you really think that Phoenix, Detroit or Houston will just not match because the market has inflated their value?
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
So, the Jazz shouldn't get all sentimental about Hayward, but judging from your post, you're getting all sentimental about him trying to maximize his income, which I would bet sizable money you, and most of us here, would do if in the same situation.
I get why sports fans get all emotional over things connect to their teams, but, really, how many of us would consider the tender, easily hurt feelings of people totally unconnected to our lives in any meaningful sense when making career decisions?
This idea that Hayward should take less money otherwise Jazz fans are going to get all emotional/sentimental about it is nuts.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
You know, the more I've thought about this, the more I'm convinced the Jazz need to match. He's been a very good player who has improved each season - except for the past one. And who could blame him for hanging his head? Jazz were awful. And Corbin spent more time resurrecting the career of Richard Jefferson than providing guidance for the young players.
No, Hayward is not worth the max right now. But he's going to rebound from a poor season. I think he'll return to his historic averages of 45%/38%. With better efficiency he should average 19-20 pts/per and still provide close to 5 rebounds and 4 assists. Jazz absolutely need him to run the offense with the first team. Trey is a shoot-first PG and Dante won't be ready to start for several months, much less lead the team.
No, Hayward is not worth the max right now. But he's going to rebound from a poor season. I think he'll return to his historic averages of 45%/38%. With better efficiency he should average 19-20 pts/per and still provide close to 5 rebounds and 4 assists. Jazz absolutely need him to run the offense with the first team. Trey is a shoot-first PG and Dante won't be ready to start for several months, much less lead the team.
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Handlogten's Heros
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Best case scenario... we can work out a sign and trade and get Vonleh (I'm not sure it is possible because of CBA reasons... if he hasn't signed yet I think we can though).
2nd best we match. He will be overpaid a bit, but most on the board felt a 12 M per year contract would be good... paying him 16 M per isn't that damaging and doesn't hurt our flexibility too much. Hell we just took on two year of Novak (who is a 9th or 10th man on a good team) for about 3.5 M for two years. The fact is our cap space is not as valuable as it was last year so this is likely the best use of that space. The best salary dump deal that is out there was just given out and it netted Tyler Zeller and a protected first round pick... pretty meh. All this talk of sign this guy or that guy... its not that easy, you will have to overpay them too.
3rd we let him walk for nothing and try to do something else with our space. I just don't see anything that fits well and I think is doable.
2nd best we match. He will be overpaid a bit, but most on the board felt a 12 M per year contract would be good... paying him 16 M per isn't that damaging and doesn't hurt our flexibility too much. Hell we just took on two year of Novak (who is a 9th or 10th man on a good team) for about 3.5 M for two years. The fact is our cap space is not as valuable as it was last year so this is likely the best use of that space. The best salary dump deal that is out there was just given out and it netted Tyler Zeller and a protected first round pick... pretty meh. All this talk of sign this guy or that guy... its not that easy, you will have to overpay them too.
3rd we let him walk for nothing and try to do something else with our space. I just don't see anything that fits well and I think is doable.
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
A lot of angst might be saved if we all just recognized this simple truth: Being a MAX player in today's market doesn't mean some is a MAX PLAYER, it simply means someone is willing to pay him a maximum salary. In different market conditions, being a MAX player could well have a different meaning. For better or for worse, Hayward entered the market in an offseason where there is a butt load of money available together with slim pickings for quality FAs. His agent anticipated this and advised Hayward correctly. What annoys me is that the Jazz FO didn't anticipate this. If, as some reports indicate, the initial talks broke down because the Jazz wanted to pay $12 million, while Hayward wanted $13 million, then this is on the Jazz FO. They lacked the foresight to anticipate what the market would be (unlike Hayward's agent) and because they got all tightfisted over a relatively paltry amount, they are going to end up paying a lot more, or lose their valued asset. Very short sighted in my opinion. Should have just paid him the extra $1 million per year rather than be penny wise and pound foolish.