If you were granted the fore-knowledge that the Utah Jazz would never win a title...

[MichaelJordan23]

So are you Jazz fans content with a team built to always lose in the 2nd round? I love the tremendous effort and coaching but when do you realize every year is the same story? Lose to the Lakers over and over and over again. When is enough? Guess you guys share something in common with the Nuggets. But after this year, they'll be a bottom feeder which is great for you guys. But how FRUSTRATING is it to be a Jazz fan? All this effort for what? A beat down in the 2nd round. (Here's a spoiler. Al Jefferson isn't your savior and nor is Millsap.)

I guess as long as you guys accept you'll never win a ring just like the Nuggets fans have, it's all good in the hood. Someone mentioned that the Clippers will never win a ring? That's true, same goes for the Jazz too.

 

[chemdude1232]

I know it's fun and all to stalk message boards, but, uh, you need something else to do.

 

[Hitman]

If a different team won the NBA title every year, on average it would take 30 years for a team to win a Championship.

However, in the 30 years since 1980, only 8 teams have won an NBA Championship: Lakers (9), Bulls (6), Celtics (4), Spurs (4), Pistons (3), Rockets (2), 76ers (1), Heat (1).

During the same time period, the Blazers, Suns, Magic, Sonics, Jazz, Knicks, Pacers, Nets, Mavericks, and Cavaliers (10 teams) have all made the Finals without also winning a Championship in that time (although the Blazers, Sonics and Knicks all won in the '70s), leaving 12 teams that have never even made the Finals in the last 30 years.

In other words, if you are an NBA fan, you are more likely to follow a team that NEVER made the Finals in the last 30 years than one that made the Finals at all, and least likely to follow a team that won a Championship. Yet, the Clippers, Nuggets, Raptors, Wizards, etc still have fans, although history says they have no hope.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

So are you Jazz fans content with a team built to always lose in the 2nd round? I love the tremendous effort and coaching but when do you realize every year is the same story? Lose to the Lakers over and over and over again. When is enough? Guess you guys share something in common with the Nuggets. But after this year, they'll be a bottom feeder which is great for you guys. But how FRUSTRATING is it to be a Jazz fan? All this effort for what? A beat down in the 2nd round. (Here's a spoiler. Al Jefferson isn't your savior and nor is Millsap.)

I guess as long as you guys accept you'll never win a ring just like the Nuggets fans have, it's all good in the hood. Someone mentioned that the Clippers will never win a ring? That's true, same goes for the Jazz too.

The Jazz are as close to winning a ring this year as the Lakers are.

You're right though. In those years when the Jazz were sweeping the Lakers year after year, they couldn't get that one last piece that would get them past the Bulls.

 

[vj_74]

pointless question.
The whole point of being a fan is hope. Take away that hope and what is the point?
Yeah, sometimes, crappy teams' fans pretty much know they wont win, but they still watch and come, because of hope.

iawtp

 

[vj_74]

I probably would.

Is there any alternative? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't follow the NBA at all if it wasn't for The Jazz.

But would you still be following them 5 or 7 years from now, when Sloan is no longer there, Deron might or might not be here and the Jazz system, say, undergoes a dramatic change and we have a mediocre coach coaching this team? And with the knowledge that they are not going to win at all? I'll be surprised that if you think there wont be any alternatives for you even then. Even now, if the Jazz magically cased to exist(another hypothetical scenario) why would it be difficult for you to root for a team like, say, the Spurs? Classy organization, good coach, system patterned after ours, and no-nonsense stars who just go about doing their job.

 

[UB]

So are you Jazz fans content with a team built to always lose in the 2nd round? I love the tremendous effort and coaching but when do you realize every year is the same story? Lose to the Lakers over and over and over again. When is enough? Guess you guys share something in common with the Nuggets. But after this year, they'll be a bottom feeder which is great for you guys. But how FRUSTRATING is it to be a Jazz fan? All this effort for what? A beat down in the 2nd round. (Here's a spoiler. Al Jefferson isn't your savior and nor is Millsap.)

I guess as long as you guys accept you'll never win a ring just like the Nuggets fans have, it's all good in the hood. Someone mentioned that the Clippers will never win a ring? That's true, same goes for the Jazz too.

we don't like to feed the trolls here. but if you're hungry, i got something that's about 4 inches long for you to feast on.

 

[vj_74]

Fast forward to today, and I see essentially the same thing - at least in Deron, Paul, and AJ. Hayward is quickly reaping the benefits of hard work and intelligence. Evans too. And on and on.

So would I stop being a fan if the Jazz never won it all? No. Because if I was not a fan, I would not have been exposed to John, Karl, Jerry, Horny, Deron, etc., all who embody the very same work ethic that I have adopted as my own in my own life. They helped mold me into the person I am today.

In short, the journey has been well worth it no matter the outcome.

the journey so far has been well worth it, I agree, But we are talking about the future. In 5-7 years from now there is no guarantee that the things that you love about the Jazz today will still be there.

I desperately want to see Sloan winning it all although the odds are not in his favor. But thats the kind of hope and wish that drives me as a fan. If I know already that he is going to retire ringless(not that he cares about it) it would be a bit painful to watch him coach every night. Same with players like Deron. Every night you'll keep wondering that if this is the last contract Deron is going to sign in Utah and if he is going to bolt. Some of us are already wondering that, but still.

BTW, good thread Jedi.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Now that the Jazz have the best PG in the league and a fairly balanced roster that fits their budget, what are the chances that they can acquire another Top 10 player--like Wade, Lebron, Durant, Dwight Howard, Blake Griffin, Pau Gasol, Carmello, Amare, Manu or Dirk Nowitzki? That's what it would take for the Jazz to be a championship favorite.

But I think it's great the Jazz are competitive every year and make the most of what they have. I think it's great that they play hard and try to win every game.

 

[chemdude1232]

That was the gist of my post: that as long as they put forth the *effort* and display the work ethic that they have become famous for (in my own mind) then yes, I will still be proud to be a Jazz fan.

You made a good point earlier about how we could root for the Spurs/Thunder/whoever who are also hard working, decent humans. That's a good point. My only answer to that is that I was a Jazz fan first, and there my loyalties will stay.

I'd even go a step further and say that being a true fan of a particular franchise means going through the highs and lows regardless of the outcome.

 

[Sean]

Obviously if I knew the ultimate outcome, it would be extremely difficult to find the passion needed to be a consistent fan.

There is a big difference between believing it's unlikely your team wins it all and knowing it can't win it all. With the former, you're at least given the sliver of hope needed to invest in your team. It's what keeps Cubs fans going every year, even though every year they're forced to accept the reality that their favorite franchise probably won't ever get it done.

I mean, there is always next year, right?

Knowing your team will never win a championship in your lifetime surely takes away the enjoyment of every game. Why do we follow the regular season with such intensity? Realistically, it isn't all that important - especially in January. The Jazz just need to win enough games to finish 8th in the west for a guaranteed playoff spot. But, as fans, we realize the season is important because it does set up the needed seeding to legitimately contend for a championship.

No 8th seed is going to win the NBA championship. Hell, neither will a 7 or 6th seed for that matter (Houston is the only 6th seed in NBA history to win the title).

If we knew ahead of time no matter where Utah finished in the standings, whether it was 1st or 8th, that they could never win the championship, where is the incentive to cheer for them in the regular season? What is so good about a win over the Detroit Pistons? Absolutely nothing in that scenario.

However, even if we concede it's unlikely, the Jazz still can technically play and win an NBA championship. Therefore, tonight's win is good because it's a game the Jazz could not really afford to lose - not if they're going to finish in the top three out west, anyway.

That alone is the difference between knowing and not knowing. If you know, the games become meaningless.

And over time, you'd lose interest.

 

[MichaelJordan23]

Now that the Jazz have the best PG in the league and a fairly balanced roster that fits their budget, what are the chances that they can acquire another Top 10 player--like Wade, Lebron, Durant, Dwight Howard, Blake Griffin, Pau Gasol, Carmello, Amare, Manu or Dirk Nowitzki? That's what it would take for the Jazz to be a championship favorite.

But I think it's great the Jazz are competitive every year and make the most of what they have. I think it's great that they play hard and try to win every game.

I'm sorry, did you just call Deron Williams the best PG in the league? That's not even homerism, just plain stupidity. Second, a SECOND superstar (unless you consider Al Jefferson a superstar ROFL) will never play on your team. Nobody wants to play in Utah. Nobody outside of Utah cares about Utah. After Malone and Stockton left, the Jazz became an afterthought in terms of contention. It's nothing personal, nobody just cares about the Jazz. Sloan is a great coach but never got the respect he deserves. Why? Nobody cares.

People will CARE if your team finally gets over the damn hump and beats the Lakers with the overrated Kobe Bryant in the playoffs.

 

[Sean]

I'm sorry, did you just call Deron Williams the best PG in the league? That's not even homerism, just plain stupidity. Second, a SECOND superstar (unless you consider Al Jefferson a superstar ROFL) will never play on your team. Nobody wants to play in Utah. Nobody outside of Utah cares about Utah. After Malone and Stockton left, the Jazz became an afterthought in terms of contention. It's nothing personal, nobody just cares about the Jazz. Sloan is a great coach but never got the respect he deserves. Why? Nobody cares.

People will CARE if your team finally gets over the damn hump and beats the Lakers with the overrated Kobe Bryant in the playoffs.

Don't you have more Hanes underwear to whore out?

 

[chemdude1232]

I once saw an HBO Real Sports segment (great show, by the way, but that's another topic) that chronicled the Boston Red Sox. For those of you who don't know, they won a World Series title in 1918 and went through an 86-year drought until 2004 when they won again.

The Sox made it to the World Series in 1986 and, very famously, lost to the Mets in 1986 in Game 7. After the game, a camera crew caught two lonely old people walking the streets of Boston. The wife was crying. When asked why she was crying, the old wife replied to the interviewer, "My husband and I just wanted to see the Sox win the Series *once* before we die." Unless that old couple survived until 2004, it is likely they didn't see the Sox win the Series.

My point? Despite not seeing them win, it is obvious that the passion (perhaps mixed with some sadness) and love for the Sox were with them. I could easily see myself being like that old couple. Because, again, the journey is what counts, so long as you can take it with people you like.

 

[vj_74]

You made a good point earlier about how we could root for the Spurs/Thunder/whoever who are also hard working, decent humans. That's a good point. My only answer to that is that I was a Jazz fan first, and there my loyalties will stay.

I'd even go a step further and say that being a true fan of a particular franchise means going through the highs and lows regardless of the outcome.

That's true as long as you didnt know the outcome in advance. You have hope on your side. Now that you (hypothetically)know the outcome that they will never win anything your fandom will wear off over the years. It is difficult to maintain enthusiasm knowing how they will never win it all.

Being a fan is a lot about hope besides loyalty. They both are even tied up to an extent. This situation Jedi proposed takes that hope away completely.
Right now, although the odds are firmly against the Jazz, I atleast have some false hope or Koolaid'itis to believe that they can win it all. If you take that away it will be more and more difficult to travel through the ups and downs.

And I dont agree that being loyal means that you root for a team knowing very well that they definitely dont have a title in their future AT ALL. why should anyone still be expected to root for the team? Just because they are located in SLC? I am not a SLC native and I could care less if they are in Utah or elsewhere. I pull the team for basketball reasons-for the system and the kind of players they have besides that hope that they will win it someday.

Knowing before hand how every season is going to end will remove the thrill and joy of anticipation. You'll go to bed every night knowing that this IS going to have a sad end. And I bet you wont last a fan for more than a few years, at best.

 

[vj_74]

Obviously if I knew the ultimate outcome, it would be extremely difficult to find the passion needed to be a consistent fan.

There is a big difference between believing it's unlikely your team wins it all and knowing it can't win it all. With the former, you're at least given the sliver of hope needed to invest in your team. It's what keeps Cubs fans going every year, even though every year they're forced to accept the reality that their favorite franchise probably won't ever get it done.

I mean, there is always next year, right?

Knowing your team will never win a championship in your lifetime surely takes away the enjoyment of every game. .

Exactly

 

[chemdude1232]

vj, I understand your point and the assumptions of the hypothetical. Trust me, I do.

I'll say it again: as long as the Jazz employ the same work ethic in this hypothetical future as they have in the past, I will still be a fan. There will still be amazing performances by individuals in games, and (again, hopefully) the Jazz will turn out a product that is nitty-gritty, in-your-face, and enjoys the work that goes into individual games.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I'm sorry, did you just call Deron Williams the best PG in the league? That's not even homerism, just plain stupidity.

Yes, DWill is the best PG in the NBA. There isn't another player in the league as complete and capable of leading a team. That's not homerism.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

People will CARE if your team finally gets over the damn hump and beats the Lakers with the overrated Kobe Bryant in the playoffs.

Kobe's Lakers would still be getting bounced in the first round if they didn't heist Pau Gasol.

 

[Sean]

I once saw an HBO Real Sports segment (great show, by the way, but that's another topic) that chronicled the Boston Red Sox. For those of you who don't know, they won a World Series title in 1918 and went through an 86-year drought until 2004 when they won again.

The Sox made it to the World Series in 1986 and, very famously, lost to the Mets in 1986 in Game 7. After the game, a camera crew caught two lonely old people walking the streets of Boston. The wife was crying. When asked why she was crying, the old wife replied to the interviewer, "My husband and I just wanted to see the Sox win the Series *once* before we die." Unless that old couple survived until 2004, it is likely they didn't see the Sox win the Series.

My point? Despite not seeing them win, it is obvious that the passion (perhaps mixed with some sadness) and love for the Sox were with them. I could easily see myself being like that old couple. Because, again, the journey is what counts, so long as you can take it with people you like.

And you know you have a shot. That is the big difference, of course.

That old couple went to the game not knowing if the Red Sox would pull off a game seven victory to win the World Series.

Obviously it didn't happen - but they still went to that game not knowing the outcome.

If you knew no matter what that Utah had no chance of winning the NBA championship, that passion would slowly die.

Think of this way - let's say you're able to somehow peer into the future (not in a Back to the Future way where you can alter what hasn't happened yet, rather just a preview of what is to come) and you find out that, 90 years from now, the Jazz still haven't won a title, the whole way you come at a game changes.

Imagine under that scenario Utah, this year, makes it to the NBA Finals and goes up 3-0 on Miami. You know, no matter what, that that fourth win will never happen. You can't tell me that doesn't cut into your enjoyment of the series. I couldn't watch it. It'd be too painful knowing the outcome.

I'm sure that Boston couple would have a hard time finding that same passion if they knew, prior to that game seven, the Sox were going to lose no matter what.