Never is a very long time.
If you were granted the fore-knowledge that the Utah Jazz would never win a title...
- Thread starter Jeditiger
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Never is a very long time.
I agree with Midgley. Why the **** would you follow and/or cheer for a team that was never going to win?
That was my first thought -- outside of the Jazz, I have zero interest in the NBA.
gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
This is exactly how I feel. If I ever move out of Utah I would probably stop watching the NBA. I watch now because the jazz are on and I have been a fan forever. If I new beforehand that they would never win it I would most likely quite watching.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
This.
Why in the hell would I watch and root for a team that I am positive will not win it?
Wait, am I already doing that?
It's about the journey, not just getting to the end.
Every year I would happily watch the Utah Generals get to the finals and lose.
Every year I would happily watch the Utah Generals get to the finals and lose.
LifeOnaPlate
Well-Known Member
I think we need to dissect the question from a more philosophical angle in order to reach a better informed conclusion.
If we take for granted that this proposition of future inevitability can be made regarding the future of the Jazz, I argue that the same could logically (though perhaps not necessarily) hold true for actions generally; that is, if we could be granted definite foreknowledge of this event we can reasonably suspect all future outcomes are decided. In other words, this proposition smacks of determinism, which has important implications for our own choices and behavior if we wish to take this hypothetical seriously. I argue that if the future of the Jazz is set in stone, all of our present actions would likewise be set in stone and our answer to the question, like the fact that the Jazz will never win a title, is not something we can meaningfully choose or change.
Indeed, I argue that in order for us to have meaningful free will we must be able to act in such a way that our actions are not predetermined, and that we have the ability to choose otherwise. But if determinism holds true we cannot act otherwise. Thus, if the premise holds true, our answers are rather meaningless because we are mere automatons who could not answer differently than we do. That, and the place of "freedom" in our lives would be found out as a complete illusion, with all the horror that entails.
Interesting question!
If we take for granted that this proposition of future inevitability can be made regarding the future of the Jazz, I argue that the same could logically (though perhaps not necessarily) hold true for actions generally; that is, if we could be granted definite foreknowledge of this event we can reasonably suspect all future outcomes are decided. In other words, this proposition smacks of determinism, which has important implications for our own choices and behavior if we wish to take this hypothetical seriously. I argue that if the future of the Jazz is set in stone, all of our present actions would likewise be set in stone and our answer to the question, like the fact that the Jazz will never win a title, is not something we can meaningfully choose or change.
Indeed, I argue that in order for us to have meaningful free will we must be able to act in such a way that our actions are not predetermined, and that we have the ability to choose otherwise. But if determinism holds true we cannot act otherwise. Thus, if the premise holds true, our answers are rather meaningless because we are mere automatons who could not answer differently than we do. That, and the place of "freedom" in our lives would be found out as a complete illusion, with all the horror that entails.
Interesting question!
You know what I already believe that. I don't see us winning a title.
It's about the same chance as winning the 290 Mega Millions tomorrow night.
I've actually become much more relaxed watching the Jazz in the past 2 years. Losses don't affect me like they used to.
I enjoy the game win or lose. I still get angry sometimes, but not nearly as much as years past. Maybe I'm also just getting older, and
more mellow too.
I will always be a jazz fan reguardless of their record. There is still a long shot we'll win a title, but it probably won't happen.
I'm still buying a ticket for tomorrow's lottery drawing...
It's about the same chance as winning the 290 Mega Millions tomorrow night.
I've actually become much more relaxed watching the Jazz in the past 2 years. Losses don't affect me like they used to.
I enjoy the game win or lose. I still get angry sometimes, but not nearly as much as years past. Maybe I'm also just getting older, and
more mellow too.
I will always be a jazz fan reguardless of their record. There is still a long shot we'll win a title, but it probably won't happen.
I'm still buying a ticket for tomorrow's lottery drawing...
This is where I am at now as well, and I think its helped me better enjoy the game. I've been a Jazz fan for 25 years now, and I think the mid-to-late 90's was our once-in-a-lifetime chance - and it didn't happen thanks to The Dream and MJ. I think the stars will all have to align and David Stern would have to allow it to happen. And unless there is some real change in this next CBA to better even out the competetive balance in the NBA, we've already seen our chances come and go. Cest la vie. I will still always be a Utah Jazz fan. There is always hope, however fleeting, but I'm not going to stress about it.
Chad Feldheimer
Well-Known Member
if you were granted fore-knowledge that the girl you were dating would never have sex with you would you keep dating her?
To win a championship, your team has to have two superstars at a minimum--preferably three, a strong coach with a well-run system, and a strong supporting cast of role players who perform.
There is a big difference between getting to the 2nd round and winning a championship. The Jazz aren't close to championship contenders right now.
I don't see how they can be either. Either you have to be at the top of the lottery and draft perfectly, or you have to draft one superstar and sign the rest as free agents or through complete robbery trades.
There is a big difference between getting to the 2nd round and winning a championship. The Jazz aren't close to championship contenders right now.
I don't see how they can be either. Either you have to be at the top of the lottery and draft perfectly, or you have to draft one superstar and sign the rest as free agents or through complete robbery trades.
I could see Miami winning a championship, because all they need now is a decent center--almost any decent center.
Chicago is one player away and might be able to swing a trade or sign one more free agent. But their window is small because they're invested in Boozer and Deng for the moment.
The Lakers have had their run.
The Spurs are the perfectly run organization for a small market team, they draft very very well, and they won the lottery twice.
Boston ripped off the Sonics for Ray Allen when the owner was selling the team, and ripped off the Wolves for Garnett when Garnett was forcing a trade.
The Lakers ripped Shaq away from Orlando then ripped Gasol away from the Grizzlies....
I just don't know if the Jazz's front office has that kind of moxie.
The Suns could have won championships with a prime-time Nash and Amare, but first Joe Johnson, then Shawn Marion left the team to chase more money somewhere else.
Chicago is one player away and might be able to swing a trade or sign one more free agent. But their window is small because they're invested in Boozer and Deng for the moment.
The Lakers have had their run.
The Spurs are the perfectly run organization for a small market team, they draft very very well, and they won the lottery twice.
Boston ripped off the Sonics for Ray Allen when the owner was selling the team, and ripped off the Wolves for Garnett when Garnett was forcing a trade.
The Lakers ripped Shaq away from Orlando then ripped Gasol away from the Grizzlies....
I just don't know if the Jazz's front office has that kind of moxie.
The Suns could have won championships with a prime-time Nash and Amare, but first Joe Johnson, then Shawn Marion left the team to chase more money somewhere else.
chemdude1232
Active Member
While the primary goal, of course, of any professional sports franchise is to win the championship, another aspect of its existence lies in appealing to the fans. Fan bases are different: Boston has always been notoriously blue-collar, the Lakers have always been about pomp and grandeur, the Clippers (in their own odd way) are popular for being so terrible. And on and on.
What the Jazz bring to the table - and what originally attracted me to the franchise - was the unquestioned work ethic the players take on. Originally, both John and Karl appealed to me because I knew, despite the outcome, that they would battle every single second of the game. Also, I knew that even if they lost the game, they were individually rewarded with largely excellent stat lines. That is important to young people: that hard work does in fact pay off.
Fast forward to today, and I see essentially the same thing - at least in Deron, Paul, and AJ. Hayward is quickly reaping the benefits of hard work and intelligence. Evans too. And on and on.
So would I stop being a fan if the Jazz never won it all? No. Because if I was not a fan, I would not have been exposed to John, Karl, Jerry, Horny, Deron, etc., all who embody the very same work ethic that I have adopted as my own in my own life. They helped mold me into the person I am today.
In short, the journey has been well worth it no matter the outcome.
What the Jazz bring to the table - and what originally attracted me to the franchise - was the unquestioned work ethic the players take on. Originally, both John and Karl appealed to me because I knew, despite the outcome, that they would battle every single second of the game. Also, I knew that even if they lost the game, they were individually rewarded with largely excellent stat lines. That is important to young people: that hard work does in fact pay off.
Fast forward to today, and I see essentially the same thing - at least in Deron, Paul, and AJ. Hayward is quickly reaping the benefits of hard work and intelligence. Evans too. And on and on.
So would I stop being a fan if the Jazz never won it all? No. Because if I was not a fan, I would not have been exposed to John, Karl, Jerry, Horny, Deron, etc., all who embody the very same work ethic that I have adopted as my own in my own life. They helped mold me into the person I am today.
In short, the journey has been well worth it no matter the outcome.
Good post.
Great post. This guy's got it right.
I was in SF when the Giants won the Series this year, but it's not that big a deal to me. The Jazz winning though, that would be historic.