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VINYLONE said:
Are you kidding Chad. Look, man, we can have a difference of opinion on many things, but has the idea that the Jazz regressed that much of a question?

WCF
2nd round
1st round

That's not a regression?
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actually it's been

Lost Western Conference Finals
Lost Western Conference Semifinals
Lost Western Conference First Round
Lost Western Conference Semifinals

Right?
 
At what point.....does Sloan get credit for having a team with major changes doing a great job not even halfway into the season?
 
Idk if you can really say we have regressed. The year we went to the WCF we got lucky to face Golden State. The next year I would say we had a better team, giving the lakers a run for their money. Last year we beat the nuggets without Memo and AK.

This year is yet to be determined, but for one thing we have improved greatly on the road. Our offense is clearly not as good as in the boozer era, but part of that blame HAS to go to Sloan. Why run the same starting lineup game after game after game when we have been so horrible in 1st quarters? Why not even try something else? Start Hayward. Or CJ. Or even consider starting Elson next to Millsap since it seems Al always starts cold.
 
VINYLONE said:
Are you kidding Chad. Look, man, we can have a difference of opinion on many things, but has the idea that the Jazz regressed that much of a question?

WCF
2nd round
1st round

That's not a regression?
Click to expand...

Actually its

WCF
2nd
1st
2nd

Looking at the last two years alone, that is a progression. Looks like WCF exit this year.
 
Just to add a few details regarding "regression":
06-07: Conf Finals - caught a major break when G.S. upset Dallas - likely a 2nd-round team w/out that break
07-08: Conf Semis - best team from that span, IMO Jazz were 2nd-best team in West - just played the Lakers 1 series early.
08-09: 1st Round - Injury bug caught up and Jazz could never get in sync - Deron missed the first month, then Boozer misses 45 games, then Okur essentially misses the playoffs.
09-10: Conf Semis - definitely over-achieved to beat Denver in 1st-round w/out AK&Memo - came back down to earth against eventual champion Lakers

So for the most part, the Jazz were pretty steady. 08-09 the injury bug hit but take away that season and they're a 51-54 win, 2nd-round team every year.

Back to the orginal question, no bigger Sloan supporter and I think he should be coach of the Jazz until he chooses to retire. That said, I think some of his substitution patterns and failure to give certain players a quick hook does merit some blame...and tonight - I didn't like our sets out of TO's or our baseline out-of-bounds plays, but when you have players literally directly passing the ball to the other team (AK, Millsap) and dribbling out of bounds (Miles) it's hard to blame all that on Sloan. Not his finest coaching performance but Memphis' players are just playing better than Utah's right now.
 
Apparently Sloan doesn't share any responsiblity for this team's performance?

sloan's above criticism is what I'm getting.

That's what I'm reading.

So it's not Sloan's fault that our rebounding has been abysmal this year?
It's not Sloan's fault that our offense looks like crap?
It's not his fault that our defense sucks?
It's not his fault that this team, despite having several vets and one major superstar, appears completely leaderless?
It's not Sloan's fault that they play without much effort and appear to have tuned out whatever the coach is yelling?

Jeez, I want Jerry's job. I can put whatever crap out there on the floor and not have to worry about my job security!
 
I don't think it's Sloan's coaching, I think it's his impact on the team's front office over the years. KoC goes after Sloan-type players. Tough, hard-working etc. Sometimes those players aren't the most talented bunch.

I think the general idea of "oh, well he won't play here because he doesn't want to live in Utah" is kind of a red herring more often than not. Not every player is an ego-maniac that only wants to play in a major market.
 
It's funny, when this franchise is successful, it's because of Jerry's system. But when things aren't going so hot, it's the players and front office but NEVER Jerry. Funny.

Maybe his strategies just aren't working? Maybe his system needs some tweaking? Maybe he's made some bad decisions? Who doesn't? Even the great Bill Walsh's system would be outdated in today's NFL. In order to survive, he'd need to tweak his system to take into account the new quicker safeties, the zone blitzes, and speed rushing defensive ends of today. Likewise, the Jaz's system is in many cases in need of tweaking. Gone are the ways of a distributing point and a solid 4 with a big truck inside at the 5. Today's NBA is guard orientated. Gone are the days of slow paced grind it out grudge matches. Today's NBA is all about fast pace run and gun chucking up 3's.

Unfortunately, our team plays too slow and too conservatively on both offense and defense. And it's showing, badly.
 
I've complained about rebounding as much if not more then anybody this season but just wanted to point out that the past few games the Jazz have improved in rebounding but their D (and TO's last night) have been abysmal and IMO part of that is the offense it's stagnant (not running the offense crisp, soft screens etc.) and to slow of pace can't always run but to often they settle instead of push.
 
The Thriller said:
It's funny, when this franchise is successful, it's because of Jerry's system. But when things aren't going so hot, it's the players and front office but NEVER Jerry. Funny.

Maybe his strategies just aren't working? Maybe his system needs some tweaking? Maybe he's made some bad decisions? Who doesn't? Even the great Bill Walsh's system would be outdated in today's NFL. In order to survive, he'd need to tweak his system to take into account the new quicker safeties, the zone blitzes, and speed rushing defensive ends of today. Likewise, the Jaz's system is in many cases in need of tweaking. Gone are the ways of a distributing point and a solid 4 with a big truck inside at the 5. Today's NBA is guard orientated. Gone are the days of slow paced grind it out grudge matches. Today's NBA is all about fast pace run and gun chucking up 3's.

Unfortunately, our team plays too slow and too conservatively on both offense and defense. And it's showing, badly.
Click to expand...

Yes indeed, Jerry and the Jazz put too little emphasis on the 3 ball and shooting talent in general. He seems to think that having one guy who can make them along with Deron is fine, maybe CJ or Raja or Memo when he is available. Other teams often seem to have another guy capable, with the Spurs the classic example: Tony and Timmy do their thing in the lane while 3 other guys set up outside the arc. Gee, I wonder if that works. What would happen if the Jazz tried that with Price, Watson, and AK outside the arc? The other team would let those guys hoist them up all night.
 
To totally honest I think the Jazz have achieved about what they should have the last few years. They aren't/weren't the best team in the league. They didn't have a top 5 player or two. They barely had one all-star. What were you really expecting?
 
Also meant to mention to Viny that you realize this same Memphis team your calling cellar dwellers just beat LA in LA and OKC right, not excusing the loss or the Jazz's play (TO's) but Memphis seems to be on a good roll for now.
 
Chad Feldheimer said:
To totally honest I think the Jazz have achieved about what they should have the last few years. They aren't/weren't the best team in the league. They didn't have a top 5 player or two. They barely had one all-star. What were you really expecting?
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If KOC would get off his *** and do a trade for SJax, we'd be better than what we've been. Do you really think SJax would stand for this mediocrity? Kid could would threaten AK if that Flock o' Seagulls ever once lollygagged or cried in an interview. We need more athleticism and skill at the two or three and SJax brings that. Start him at the 3 and Hayward at the 2 and we'd have guys busting their ***, shooting, etc. Then bring Bell (2), CJ (3) and AK (4) off the bench since AK and Bell supposedly play so well together and they get theirs too.

Nevermind, **** it, let's just continue with the status quo.
 
To tell you the truth, this team is boring to watch.

I can handle losses.

But it's the way we play that completely irritates me. We're as boring as ever. Even in our wins over the past month they've been boring.

Play Evans, play Hayward, limit Bell, let the team have some fun. If fans aren't having any fun then I doubt the players are either. To me, our games just look like one bore fest with Deron and co becoming more and more frustrated.

I would support a shakeup. Roll the dice. Bring in Steve Jax. Even if he doesn't take us to a championship, I'd much rather find his play entertaining than watch Bell and AK continuously shoot bricks.
 
sportsnut1232 said:
He does deserve credit for this. But then why can't he do something as simple as adjust our starting lineup?
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Remember when last year Wes playing great when he started early because of some injuries, but because Brewer was penciled in as a starter, Wes lost minutes and starting spot when Brewer was healthy. Not until KOC traded Brewer away did Sloan go back to Wes as a starter and gave him consistent minutes. And the team actually got better. Now Wes is averaging 20 ppg as a starter in just his second year. Now Sloan is doing the same thing with Hayward. Rookie actually showed he can contribute as good or better than Bell when given an opportunity, but Sloan still insists on starting and playing Bell more. I just don't get it.
 
Borat said:
Remember when last year Wes playing great when he started early because of some injuries, but because Brewer was penciled in as a starter, Wes lost minutes and starting spot when Brewer was healthy. Not until KOC traded Brewer away did Sloan go back to Wes as a starter and gave him consistent minutes. And the team actually got better. Now Wes is averaging 20 ppg as a starter in just his second year. Now Sloan is doing the same thing with Hayward. Rookie actually showed he can contribute as good or better than Bell when given an opportunity, but Sloan still insists on starting and playing Bell more. I just don't get it.
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For what it's worth, I think the team was actually peaking last year with Brewer in the starting lineup and then we traded him away, ya know, for the betterment of the team. That said, the trade did make sense in that we had no shot at a title and perhaps were set on not re-signing him.
 
KrazeeEyezKilla said:
For what it's worth, I think the team was actually peaking last year with Brewer in the starting lineup and then we traded him away, ya know, for the betterment of the team. That said, the trade did make sense in that we had no shot at a title and perhaps were set on not re-signing him.
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The trade made us better, because it allowed Wes to play more. We were better short term, and certainly had we kept Wes, we would have benefited long term as well. Perhaps something similar will happen to Hayward. But it looks like KOC has to trade Bell to find out.
 
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