Peaceful protest over Charlie Hebdo in Chechnya

[Deleted member 848]

So

According to the find word function in firefox Hitler uses the word peace over 100 times in Mein Kampf. Counting instances of words doesn't really tell us much.


Godwin'd

Words might not talk, but facts do:


In the advent of the Islamic faith, those who were living within a jurisdiction with a Muslim majority had much much better interfaith relations than the two other Abrahamic religions combined.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Islam is not a religion of war OR peace. It's just a religion, whose existence is a reflection of humans on this earth who are acting upon their interpretations of it.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Can it be such a thing as modern Islam? I mean it took some time for Christian churches to adjust to scientific progress and modern values. Can Islam turn into modern religion which does not take every single word in Quran literally? Or it will take ~600 years for Islam to catch to to Christianity in that regard?
Like most of our Turkish posters and dalamon look like very modern muslims. Can they become majority in the 1.5 bil muslim world?

The problem isn't taking every word of the Quran literally. That's not the problem at all, in fact.


The problem is coming up with one interpretation of the Quran's teachings, and silencing all others that oppose their one interpretation, or discourse.

 

[Deleted member 848]

You can't have it both ways. Either verses should be interpreted in context of surrounding verses or they are independent of one another. You can't ask people to consider the larger context and then when they do dismiss a directly adjacent verse.




And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.

The war waged by the polytheists against Muhammad and his tribe was very contextual. The Quran is contextual. Ever notice how at one point, there is a neutral stance on alcohol-- only to have it more concretely forbidden later on? This is because God was communicating to Muhammad based on what He thought Muhammad was capable of implementing, comprehending, and his counterparts being able to implement and comprehend at that point in time.

The Quran generally speaks quite negatively on the polytheists-- but that's because these polytheists literally tried to murder Muhammad and all Muslims time and time again. Ever look into any excerpts on what the Quran says with regards to the Abrahamic faiths?

Context. This labelling of the Islamic faith as a religion of war is facile, uneducated, and propogandistic

 

[Deleted member 848]

Not to mention that the allowance of Muslim towns to take in polytheists so long as they pay a protection tax (zakah, or zakat) was unheard of in that era.

 

[The Blue Elephant]

The war waged by the polytheists against Muhammad and his tribe was very contextual. The Quran is contextual. Ever notice how at one point, there is a neutral stance on alcohol-- only to have it more concretely forbidden later on? This is because God was communicating to Muhammad based on what He thought Muhammad was capable of implementing, comprehending, and his counterparts being able to implement and comprehend at that point in time.

The Quran generally speaks quite negatively on the polytheists-- but that's because these polytheists literally tried to murder Muhammad and all Muslims time and time again. Ever look into any excerpts on what the Quran says with regards to the Abrahamic faiths?

Context. This labelling of the Islamic faith as a religion of war is facile, uneducated, and propogandistic

IMO the Qur'an never bans alcohol. It just says it is a tool of the devil. It warns against it.

 

[fishonjazz]

That is verse 9:5. In the verse next verse 9:6. It says to not only give peace to the peaceful polytheists but to also protect them. Polytheists/atheists are people who worship things other than God such as fake gods or themselves.

Ya I saw the next verse which spoke of peace and protection.
That was not the verse I was asking about though.

My question was why does it say that polytheists should be killed?
Do you know why it says that?

 

[Deleted member 848]

Ya I saw the next verse which spoke of peace and protection.
That was not the verse I was asking about though.

My question was why does it say that polytheists should be killed?
Do you know why it says that?

Because Muhammad was waging an active war against polytheistic Arabia at that time, and not trying to kill the polytheists would have meant the end of the faith of Islam as you and I know it.

Refer to my posts in the last page. Again, take note of the fact that Islam is wayyyyy more relaxed about the treatment of those of the Abrahamic faiths.

 

[fishonjazz]

Because Muhammad was waging an active war against polytheistic Arabia at that time, and not trying to kill the polytheists would have meant the end of the faith of Islam as you and I know it.

Refer to my posts in the last page. Again, take note of the fact that Islam is wayyyyy more relaxed about the treatment of those of the Abrahamic faiths.

Thanks for the answer. If they were simply defending themselves then that makes sense.

 

[♪alt13]

Words might not talk, but facts do:


In the advent of the Islamic faith, those who were living within a jurisdiction with a Muslim majority had much much better interfaith relations than the two other Abrahamic religions combined.

I have no desire to defend either Judaism or Christianity as can be seen in the post below.

yep

Because there is one true god. Muslims aren't alone in having these kind of statements in their holy book. The Bible has just as many, if not more,(probably more) quotes about slaughtering people for the same reason.

The war waged by the polytheists against Muhammad and his tribe was very contextual. The Quran is contextual. Ever notice how at one point, there is a neutral stance on alcohol-- only to have it more concretely forbidden later on? This is because God was communicating to Muhammad based on what He thought Muhammad was capable of implementing, comprehending, and his counterparts being able to implement and comprehend at that point in time.

The Quran generally speaks quite negatively on the polytheists-- but that's because these polytheists literally tried to murder Muhammad and all Muslims time and time again. Ever look into any excerpts on what the Quran says with regards to the Abrahamic faiths?

Context. This labelling of the Islamic faith as a religion of war is facile, uneducated, and propogandistic

Maybe you missed this post as well.

I should add that this is not my interpretation of the passage(I don't have one, I don't subscribe to Islam) This is an interpretation that seems to be accepted by the Islamists. They are growing in number and we know that they are recruiting from the families of more moderate Muslims.

I do think it is fair that people call upon Muslims to combat these more violent interpretations of the Qur'an.

This isn't to say I don't have an opinion just that I don't have an interpretation. I don't think you need to defend the reputation of Islam from people like me but rather from the extremists.

 

[Deleted member 848]

I have no desire to defend either Judaism or Christianity as can be seen in the post below.






Maybe you missed this post as well.



This isn't to say I don't have an opinion just that I don't have an interpretation. I don't think you need to defend the reputation of Islam from people like me but rather from the extremists.

Not from the extremists-- but from the kingpins of the Islamic world, who sequester every dialogue that goes against their own. These kingpins also fund the extremists.


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[Stoked]

Not from the extremists-- but from the kingpins of the Islamic world, who sequester every dialogue that goes against their own. These kingpins also fund the extremists.


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I disagree. Kignpins might be funding them but the extremists will still be there killing and spreading terror with or without these leaders that support them. They both severly damage public perception of Islam in their own ways.

 

[Deleted member 848]

I disagree. Kignpins might be funding them but the extremists will still be there killing and spreading terror with or without these leaders that support them. They both severly damage public perception of Islam in their own ways.

Agree to disagree.


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[Stoked]

Agree to disagree.


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ok.

 

[addictionary]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRgS8y-7uXA

Act of mercy? That doesn't sound like the words of a torturer

 

[addictionary]

Much more scary ( and real ) is what M.Gaddafi said once - "We ( muslims) do not need terrorists, bombs or war to conquer Western world. All we need is our men to marry their women". Its working, see this chart for example:

Safe to say by 2090 most of European countries will be dominated by Muslim majority.

Kaddafi did not speak for the rest of the Muslim world. He was a nutjob dictator.

 

[addictionary]

What is this part talking about?



What are polytheists? (People who believe in multiple Gods?)

Why do they deserve to be killed?

In the time the book was sent down, he region and the society was dominated by putperests (some Arabian pagan religion that hey worshipped little statues). That was why the era was called Cahiliye (Ignorance) Era. They buried their new born daughters. Islam was kind of a revolution towards being human again back then. The polyheists that are spoken of are them.

 

[fishonjazz]

In the time the book was sent down, he region and the society was dominated by putperests (some Arabian pagan religion that hey worshipped little statues). That was why the era was called Cahiliye (Ignorance) Era. They buried their new born daughters. Islam was kind of a revolution towards being human again back then. The polyheists that are spoken of are them.

Thanks

 

[addictionary]

But ISIS still killed that American aid worker who converted to Islam, he even changed his name to arabic long time before capture and that still did not matter. So how is it?

ISIS decapitates anyone who doesn't join them or aid them. They are the least essence-of-Islamic-faith-based group I have ever seen. I doubt that they are given rise by anyone but some intelligence web.

 

[addictionary]

I disagree. Kignpins might be funding them but the extremists will still be there killing and spreading terror with or without these leaders that support them. They both severly damage public perception of Islam in their own ways.

I wish you knew the social environment these people lived in. You would think exactly the opposite. Religious leaders' words are everything for those people. They have the horses in the uprising of the suicide bombings. It's impossible not to listen to them for many of those people. They feel subconsciously choiceless.