Privileged by Kyle Korver

The more we rehash this topic, the more bent out of shape we all get. The emotional bank account is in full effect here. Very few of the posters here feel like another poster truly loves them (cares about them on an individual level). The trouble with this is in order to have a chance to reach or change somebody you must make emotional deposits, before they will be willing to consider a withdrawal (changing their mindset, life, actions etc.)

In other words if you are not close friends or have a mutual reverence with a poster here, it may actually have the opposite outcome of what you are trying to achieve because we are missing the key ingredient of love in many instances. Another great quote that I feel is relevant here is: "Nobody wins an argument."

This asking for change without first extending love is doing a lot of damage and building tribalism and encouraging segregation. Everybody feels like nobody listens and understands, because we often omit love in our discussions and arguments.

I doubt I have the reputation to make this point, I hope you all will tolerate me posting what's on my mind.

NPC D4617 said:

You cant beat my logic. That's why you wont answer.

I dont even have to use an extreme example. Just an ordinary example.

White guy, no dad. Grew up very poor. In and out of jail. Got addicted to heroin. Overdoses. Has health problems. Dies at 25.

Black guy. Grew up in above average household income status. College paid for. Both parents. Becomes an engineer and has 4 kids. Has a good life. Lives to 89

Does the white guy still have some unfair advantage over the black guy.

Or are you going to tell me that scenario could never exist?

Or is it just easier to not think about how different things are from one person to the next?

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Lmfao. I’m going to tell you this persona is a dumbass.

And yes.

Your extreme example probably doesn’t get followed in a store or harassed for having a BBQ at a public picnic.

Since you want dumb extreme examples and all.



Also, no time for this BS.

I’m out.

There are a number of variables and biases that lead to advantages or preferential treatment in society. Race/racism is merely one of them, but it's the one we're discussing here.

If you have a high IQ, society often sees you as more valuable.

If you're tall, society generally sees you as more valuable.

If you're rich, you're often seen as more valuable.

If you have fame or social influence, you are seen as more valuable.

If you're physically healthy, that's a big advantage compared to simeone who is burdened by illness or handicaps.

So NPC is pointing out that someone who is small and handicapped is disadvantaged compared to a 6'8" world-class athlete, but race isn't the cause of advantage or disadvantage.

Don't you think it romanticizes mischief. Like a bad feedback loop?

Stoked said:

I don’t think it’s helpful and one of my biggest complaints is I find it highly sexist. But it’s like 1% of the problem maybe. It’s a symptom. Not a cause.

Something I’ve learned

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I think we should change the wording from white privilege to structural racism. Built into areas of color or poor areas. Because if you are white in these areas your privilege isn't necessarily going to help you overcome your area. In this case the government has created certain priorities and privileges for minorities and women that disadvantage whites. But, that is why investing in these areas are key with good jobs and good schools. Without those opportunities these communities will continue to struggle.

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I loved Korver's essay.

Mission Accomplished said:

I think we should change the wording from white privilege to structural racism. Built into areas of color or poor areas. Because if you are white in these areas your privilege isn't necessarily going to help you overcome your area. In this case the government has created certain priorities and privileges for minorities and women that disadvantage whites. But, that is why investing in these areas are key with good jobs and good schools. Without those opportunities these communities will continue to struggle.

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Anarchists would argue that the very institutions themselves though which these policies are implemented have a structural inertia that makes them resistant/impossible to change. I think there is a lot of value in this critique, anyone who has worked in a large bureaucracy will tell you that no matter how well meaning you are, outcomes are more or less predetermined by policy and custom. Change is incredibly difficult to implement, even when the official policy changes practice will often continue as it has always been done regardless.

When he talks about how the other players have felt it too, or feel like their
"in a zoo", is he referring to SLC or just everywhere in general?

I really liked that Kyle Korver is taking helping to educate the majority population of the experiences that minorities have to face on a day to day basis. I have experienced racism first hand for many years towards black people and I'm white. My wife of 10 years is black and our daughter is of course mixed while her daughter and my step daughter is black. For the short time that we lived in Utah we didn't experience anything that was overly racist aside from the dirty looks when we were out together. But we traveled often because of my job and through the last 10 years, I can tell you that there is way too much of this going on.
I have always held an upper management position involving working around a majority of white people that look like myself. I have had to hear their comments and jokes about black people, that they say without hesitation because they didn't realize that my wife and daughters are black. I even had an owner of a company and one of my clients tell me a joke involving a dead black baby that he found funny. My family is my everything to me and I hear more of it because people assume that my wife (who I speak highly of) is white. I have lost promotional opportunities at past companies after my colleagues realized that my wife was black. (After Christmas parties, corporate family events, etc)
I had one of my superiors give me a lecture of how it looks to others when they know that my wife is Black AND a stay at home mother. Even though his wife was also a stay at home mother. He proceeded to tell me that I shouldn't allow her to be "lazy" just because I bring home the bread. I asked him if that's what people thought about his wife. He said that with his wife, it was expected.
This is no joke. This is my family who I would kill for that I'm talking about. Time and time again I have had people assume that my wife is ghetto because she is black and from Detroit. She has a higher level of education and more advanced degree than I do, but that is the instant assumption when I introduce her to someone. We live in Las Vegas now and even though my daughter goes to one of the best public elementary schools in the state of Nevada, I have to hear the stories of the kids that don't like her because she's black. She's 7 years old. No 7 year old child should have to go through that no matter what the color of their skin is.
Its time that this country woke up and started focusing on the actual issues that plague our communities.

this clip is an interesting take by Bill Maher. Not on racism but structural wealth. I find that it can kind of relate to our current conversation.

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At the end of the day, I can only be responsible for myself, my thoughts, my beliefs, my actions. So what can I do? Education and empathy.

I've been trying to educate myself for awhile now, and make it a point to read books by and about people of color on a regular basis. I'm in the midst of one of those times right now. I'm listening on audiobook to Barack Obama's "Dreams From My Father." I finished reading "On the Come Up" by Angie Thomas last night (a novel about an black female teen aspiring to be a rapper - had to look up a lot of references I didn't understand), and I saw the movie "The Best of Enemies" on Saturday. This article rounds out this week's education.

I likely will never be able to fully understand, but I can certainly care and try and listen. How powerful would it be if we all cared and tried and listened more? It's the best way toward change that I can think of.

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Mission Accomplished said:

I think we should change the wording from white privilege to structural racism. Built into areas of color or poor areas. Because if you are white in these areas your privilege isn't necessarily going to help you overcome your area. In this case the government has created certain priorities and privileges for minorities and women that disadvantage whites. But, that is why investing in these areas are key with good jobs and good schools. Without those opportunities these communities will continue to struggle.

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Did you know, these area's of color or "poor areas" you speak of, were designated and enforced by the government years ago? We have been taught as white people that it was many years ago, when it actually wasn't. President Franklin Roosevelt's addition to the housing act of 1949 encouraged white's movements to the suburbs, and that minorities be limited to racial zoning ordinances. That has been modified on paper, but still executed to this current day. For example. I live in Las Vegas, a state with one of the lowest school and public educational ratings in the nation. The poor areas that consist of a majority of minorities are forced to send their children to a school that is zoned to which they live. (Same as every state).
Where they live is dirty and riddled with crime, drugs and violence. But that is what they can afford. Their children therefore go to a school with outdated text books and are taught by teachers that are paid minimum salary compared to the rest of the state. The children have almost no chance of receiving a quality education based on the schools that they have to go to. If your a parent of color and can't afford to live in a better area, but you want the best for your child, why would you not be allowed to take your kids to school in a better area regardless of zoning?
My daughter's are black and my wife (black) and I (white) had to move to a very expensive area of town just to see that our children went to a good, top rated public schools. We had that option, but there are many single, minority mothers, who also want the best but can't afford to live in the areas that provide their children with a quality education. Their children are raised in a system where the odds are against them to succeed. It was set up to be like this years ago, and it is still being carried out.
The state/government doesn't provide the money in these areas for good jobs and good schools. Jobs are nothing more than businesses that provide open positions to people that are qualified. But nobody in the right mind will open up a business in these areas if they could because of the crime, and unqualified people in the area. Plus the state won't give money to these schools to hire more qualified teachers, and better text books. They will in the white areas though. You make it sound easy, but it's not that easy. Especially in places outside of Utah, like Las Vegas. One of the reasons that Utah is such an incredible system, but everywhere is like this no matter what.

JazzGal said:

At the end of the day, I can only be responsible for myself, my thoughts, my beliefs, my actions. So what can I do? Education and empathy.

I've been trying to educate myself for awhile now, and make it a point to read books by and about people of color on a regular basis. I'm in the midst of one of those times right now. I'm listening on audiobook to Barack Obama's "Dreams From My Father." I finished reading "On the Come Up" by Angie Thomas last night (a novel about an black female teen aspiring to be a rapper - had to look up a lot of references I didn't understand), and I saw the movie "The Best of Enemies" on Saturday. This article rounds out this week's education.

I likely will never be able to fully understand, but I can certainly care and try and listen. How powerful would it be if we all cared and tried and listened more? It's the best way toward change that I can think of.

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I personally think that that is awesome that you're making an effort to educate yourself. Just keep in mind that there is so much beauty to the African American culture. There is so much more to their music than rap. There is a certain poetry about their culture that is the most beautiful thing you will ever see. They came here in shackles and have changed music, athletics, politics, culture, family values and so much more. I promise you that the more you learn, the more respect you will have.

I think Jeremy Lin would have copped more racism than the standard NBA player because he doesn't necessarily look like the majority faces on the court or off it.

The only people who can comfortably proclaim that they have no privilege are the people who have enough privilege to believe that.

Mission Accomplished said:

Don't you think it romanticizes mischief. Like a bad feedback loop?

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I think it’s a way of people telling their stories and experiences. Why do they say what they say?

People make the same ****ing arguments that I have seen responded to a million times on this site! "Oh, all whites are privileged?? How about this guy??". It's been responded to over and over and over.

Some people just don't give a **** I suppose.

Stoked said:

So you both insinuate he’s a liar while dismissing someone’s experience who might have something you should hear.

Not a good look tbh.

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Well, since he's not claiming to be American or not American, to be white or not white, it's hard to say he's lying about a fact he's not stating.

If he has a perspective to share, I'll listen. Right now, Tak is only saying that no one should tell him he needs to listen. So, there's not much experience there to hear, either.

Edit to add: by the way, this is the poster who has said tone doesn't matter in a conversation. So, I'm sure they have no objections to my tone.

Tak said:

Now you sound like a typical american jerk from any comedy... "don't you talk about the USA if you're a foreigner... damn foreigners stickin' his noses in the good 'ol USA"

Racism is not an american property, it's a global issue, but hey, would you be so kind to let me have an opinion about it?

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I wasn't aware you had an opinion about it. So far, all you've said is that you want to be hear, without actually saying anything else.