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2020 Presidential election

NPC D4617 said:
Nothing you said in that post was true
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On the contrary, it was virtually all true, and so much of it is easily provable from the public record. Simply issuing a blanket denial of reality isn't the most astute comeback on your part. It certainly doesn't advance your position, whatever the heck it is....
 
But like why be worried?

Let’s say the moron refuses to go and started blowing up Twitter. Oh no! Not that

Law enforcement, secret service, Marshalls and FBI probably walk in and escort him from the premises.

Then he goes to court over it and while he’s fuming to a judge America has moved on.

Or do the bunch of you expect law enforcement at large to forcibly back him? I absolutely do not. Him or any other president that lost an election vote.

To me it’s just dramatization over an *******.

Wish we saw the house dems pushing votes on immigration and more criminal justice reform instead of more hearings and crap.
 
Stoked said:
Or do the bunch of you expect law enforcement at large to forcibly back him?
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Well, all I suggested is that it would be out of character for him to concede a close election, regardless of what that would actually precipitate. It may be an overreaction, but his past words and his present efforts in consolidating power in the Executive branch are what brought such thoughts to the fore. I don't blame anyone for such thoughts. He's the one who planted them, they didn't develop in a vacuum. Regardless of how unrealistic such a scenario may appear, remaining vigilant is not a harmful thing.

https://www.salon.com/2019/05/06/wi...in-2020-scholars-echo-nancy-pelosis-concerns/

"Trump has even retweeted his agreement with the absurd and indeed radically anti-constitutional claim by Jerry Falwell Jr. that Trump’s first two years as president were 'stolen' from him by the supposedly illegitimate Mueller probe into Russia’s attack on the 2016 election. The 'argument,' though I hesitate to call it that, claims that Trump is 'owed' an extra two years as 'reparations' for the distraction of the investigations into what went awry in 2016."
 
Stoked said:
But like why be worried?

Let’s say the moron refuses to go and started blowing up Twitter. Oh no! Not that

Law enforcement, secret service, Marshalls and FBI probably walk in and escort him from the premises.

Then he goes to court over it and while he’s fuming to a judge America has moved on.

Or do the bunch of you expect law enforcement at large to forcibly back him? I absolutely do not. Him or any other president that lost an election vote.

To me it’s just dramatization over an *******.

Wish we saw the house dems pushing votes on immigration and more criminal justice reform instead of more hearings and crap.
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Would they though? It's an open question being as Trump is the head of the executive branch ie law enforcement. And even if what you say is how it would go down, that's not how peaceful transitions of power go down in democracies. Think about how scenario that would be used by leaders of autocratic leaders around the world. It's a baaaad look for democracy.
 
Zombie said:
Would they though? It's an open question being as Trump is the head of the executive branch ie law enforcement. And even if what you say is how it would go down, that's not how peaceful transitions of power go down in democracies. Think about how scenario that would be used by leaders of autocratic leaders around the world. It's a baaaad look for democracy.
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No, it’s really not. Just because his dumb *** says it doesn’t make it so. That’s not how reality works.

I agree it is a bad look but we’ve had a bad look for 2 years now. Also F other autocratic leaders.

But that’s my point. Even if he’s that douchebag that makes it not peaceful, let’s be honest - he is, they still just throw his *** out.

I don’t buy into this crisis some people are making it out to be. It wasn’t a crisis when the Rs said it about Obama and it’s not now. Despite Obama being worlds better as a person than Trump.

To me what he will do is leave peacefully but then second guess, under cut and condemn any decision the next president makes.

It won’t be this nice, pretty handing over of the keys. But the keys will still be handed. Dudes already shown he’s trash. And that’s fine. He will still be shown the door. America will still be America after him.
 
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Stoked said:
Or do the bunch of you expect law enforcement at large to forcibly back him? I absolutely do not. Him or any other president that lost an election vote.
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I expect Trump would cooperate less with the incoming President than any previous President voted out. The new President might not even get into the White House until being sworn in.
 
Stoked said:
No, it’s really not. Just because his dumb *** says it doesn’t make it so. That’s not how reality works.

I agree it is a bad look but we’ve had a bad look for 2 years now. Also F other autocratic leaders.

But that’s my point. Even if he’s that douchebag that makes it not peaceful, let’s be honest - he is, they still just throw his *** out.

I don’t buy into this crisis some people are making it out to be. It wasn’t a crisis when the Rs said it about Obama and it’s not now. Despite Obama being worlds better as a person than Trump.

To me what he will do is leave peacefully but then second guess, under cut and condemn any decision the next president makes.

It won’t be this nice, pretty handing over of the keys. But the keys will still be handed. Dudes already shown he’s trash. And that’s fine. He will still be shown the door. America will still be America after him.
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Any time a leader may need to be removed from office by force it's a crisis. Not saying it's going to go that way, we're not there yet, but Trump isn't inspiring a lot of confidence there.

Obama never hinted in any way shape or form that this was a possibility so your false equivalence is false.
 
One Brow said:
I expect Trump would cooperate less with the incoming President than any previous President voted out. The new President might not even get into the White House until being sworn in.
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I can see him being that kind of egotistical prick.
 
Zombie said:
Any time a leader may need to be removed from office by force it's a crisis. Not saying it's going to go that way, we're not there yet, but Trump isn't inspiring a lot of confidence there.

Obama never hinted in any way shape or form that this was a possibility so your false equivalence is false.
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I’m not trying to say Obama did. I’m saying the other side said that’s what he would do. So my equivalence is fine.

Also wouldn’t a false, false equivalence be true ;)

But no, I don’t see them telling him to gtfo as a crisis. It’s just not.

Armed men backing him up and there being stand offs between federal officers is a crisis. And I simply don’t see that playing out. If trump losses he won’t get that backing from federal officials.

It’s not a crisis.
 
Stoked said:
I’m not trying to say Obama did. I’m saying the other side said that’s what he would do. So my equivalence is fine.

Also wouldn’t a false, false equivalence be true ;)

But no, I don’t see them telling him to gtfo as a crisis. It’s just not.

Armed men backing him up and there being stand offs between federal officers is a crisis. And I simply don’t see that playing out. If trump losses he won’t get that backing from federal officials.

It’s not a crisis.
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By saying it wasn't a crisis with Obama and isn't now you are trying to make a parallel between the two situations even though they are vastly different. What Republicans thought of Obama has **** all to do with Trump's apparent suggestion he may not be willing to hand over power peacefully.

I also think you are underestimating the number of Trump supporters who would rally behind him if he was to refuse and how ugly our politics could get as a result of it. This could easily bleed into the thinking of other GOP politicians and poison our fragile institutions further.
 
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I thought it was beyond silly when I heard a bunch of conservatives I worked with talking about how they didn't think Obama would leave office after his second term and would try to serve a third term. I think the idea that Trump won't leave office equally as silly. That's a line that would lose him all of his support amongst Republican officials. If he had to be dragged out of the White House by his ear he'd be dragged out of the White House by his ear, but he'd leave the White House one way or the other.
 
Bulletproof said:
I thought it was beyond silly when I heard a bunch of conservatives I worked with talking about how they didn't think Obama would leave office after his second term and would try to serve a third term. I think the idea that Trump won't leave office equally as silly. That's a line that would lose him all of his support amongst Republican officials. If he had to be dragged out of the White House by his ear he'd be dragged out of the White House by his ear, but he'd leave the White House one way or the other.
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I agree it's not likely, but I disagree that it's equally silly to think it might happen with Trump. I'd be surprised if he did try to remain in office, but he's the most likely president to try it we've probably ever had.
 
**** Trump but this is just ridiculously stupid. I don't care much for today's political toxicity from both equally guilty parties and conversations like this are the reason why.
 
Zombie said:
I agree it's not likely, but I disagree that it's equally silly to think it might happen with Trump. I'd be surprised if he did try to remain in office, but he's the most likely president to try it we've probably ever had.
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However likely he might be to try I think it's a silly topic for discussion. There's nothing indicating he'd actually do it, this all got kicked up based on bald speculation. It isn't helpful.
 
Bulletproof said:
However likely he might be to try I think it's a silly topic for discussion. There's nothing indicating he'd actually do it, this all got kicked up based on bald speculation. It isn't helpful.
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That's not quite true. He retweeted Jerry Falwell recently saying that Trump should stay in office an extra two years to make up for the years "stolen" from him due to the Mueller probe.

I don't think that's proof that he'd definitely try it or anything, but it's the sort of thing that a President shouldn't even joke about in a Democracy, and it warrants immediate pushback.
 
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Stoked said:
I’m not trying to say Obama did. I’m saying the other side said that’s what he would do. So my equivalence is fine.
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While he was running, in both elections, Obama was asked what he would do if he lost (every major candidate gets asked this question), and he said he would respect the results of the election (as has every other candidate in my life time, with one glaring exception). It's not equivalent.

Edit to add: speculation on what the fringe of the opposition claims is different from speculation based on what the candidate has directly said.
 
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