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The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

silesian said:
Exactly. Because what Joe Bagadonuts is saying is that MSNBC and CNN explicitly stated that Trump told Americans to inject disinfectants. That's the whole issue under debate. I don't watch them so I am still waiting for evidence, who said it, what did they say, etc.

If Chris Cuomo or Don Lemon said "Trump told Americans to inject disinfectant," that lie would exposed by a Breitbart and Fox News headline in two microseconds.
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Because of all your posts I decided to dig up the transcript of the CNN broadcast I listened to. It was in the 4-5 PM hour last Friday. The show was The Situation Room. Here is the transcript: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/2004/24/sitroom.02.html

I can also tell you that in the same hour there were very similar comments on MSNBC.

The portion of the conversation I listened to involved Wolfe Blitzer, Jim Acosta, Sanjay Gupta and there were possibly more. To me, even re-reading their statements now, I think it is very reasonable for a listener to believe that the president advised Americans to inject themselves with household cleaners. They imply that repeatedly. As I said before, I switched to Fox and they weren't talking about it. I switched to MSNBC and they were saying much the same thing as CNN. As a result of the news stories I heard I believed that the president must have actually said these things (though I still wanted to hear his actual words to verify). When I did later hear the president's words I thought he should definitely not be musing about such ideas in public, and I also thought that he definitely did not say what the reporters on CNN and MSNBC claimed that he did.
 
colton said:
His quote displayed extreme ignorance. EXTREME ignorance. Which is why I posted it here. No serious news outlet is saying that Trump instructed Americans to inject Lysol into their veins and to drink bleach. I bet you can't find any actual video clips from CNN or MSNBC claiming that in anything but a ridiculing way.
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It would be nearly impossible for me to find any video clip of any kind on CNN or MSNBC where they weren't discussing the president in a ridiculing way. If using a ridiculing tone relieves the reporter of being required to tell the truth then MSNBC and CNN are using the strategy brilliantly.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Because of all your posts I decided to dig up the transcript of the CNN broadcast I listened to. It was in the 4-5 PM hour last Friday. The show was The Situation Room. Here is the transcript: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/2004/24/sitroom.02.html
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http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/2004/24/sitroom.02.html

Thank you.

Joe Bagadonuts said:
The portion of the conversation I listened to involved Wolfe Blitzer, Jim Acosta, Sanjay Gupta and there were possibly more. To me, even re-reading their statements now, I think it is very reasonable for a listener to believe that the president advised Americans to inject themselves with household cleaners. They imply that repeatedly.
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The transcript is full of "may" and "potentially". I didn't read one statement that said the President instructed Americans to inject. Perhaps you could quote it? Failing that, perhaps you could consider that you are slanting this news story in the same fashion you claim they are slanting what Trump said?
 
One Brow said:
Rodeo clowns put themselves in danger on a regular basis, IIUC. Much respect to them.
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It actually takes training and dedication to be a rodeo clown. Any rodeo clown as incompetent and disinterested in their duties as our President would not last long.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
They did say it. Did you read the transcript or not?
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Read the article. I did not read the voices inside your head.


You completely misrepresented the coverage.

If you had a quote to support your claim that CNN lied by repeatedly reporting that trump directed people to inject disinfectant, I’m certain you would have shared it with us.

look, you interpreted the reporting incorrectly, we all make mistakes.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
I think it is very reasonable for a listener to believe that the president advised Americans to inject themselves with household cleaners.
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silesian said:
CNN didn’t in fact say this.
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silesian said:
I’m not really interested in what you believe, just in what they factually said.
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OK, I did my best to read the transcript, and extracted these comments.

This first one, by Blitzer, appears inaccurate, because Trump did not say that “people could inject themselves”. He talked about it as a potential treatment, but not people themselves trying this, but said in effect that this would be a decision made by doctors, at the conclusion of his disinfectant musings( Trump: “And I then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute, and is there a way you can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs, and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it'd be interesting to check that. So you're going to have to use medical doctors, but it sounds interesting to me, so we'll see”)

Blitzer: “This is a president who is feeling the heat big time, after he made that outlandish, ridiculous comment yesterday that people could inject themselves potentially with household disinfectants as a cure for the coronavirus, and then tried to walk it back today by saying he was being sarcastic.”
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This statement by Blitzer seems accurate:

Blitzer: “So, Sanjay, it's pretty extraordinary. Yesterday, 24 hours ago -- these briefings sometimes go an hour, hour-and-a-half, sometimes even more than two hours. This one was about 20 minutes.

The president specifically suggested that potentially injecting some sort of disinfectant into your body might be a possible way to deal with coronavirus.”
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This Blitzer statement is not quite accurate. I don’t recall Trump saying “consume” disinfectants, which I interpret as “drinking” them:

BLITZER: We're following the backlash from President Trump's dangerous suggestion that disinfectants might be consumed or injected as a potential treatment for the virus.
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This exchange seems an extrapolation of something Trump did not say, namely “drinking Clorox”:


MAYOR JOHN ERNST (D-GA): Thank you, Wolf, so much for having me.

And, of course, I'm very worried about those kinds of issues, and the fact of having -- of being told one thing one day and being told something else another day. It really causes a lot of the confusion.

And, obviously, drinking Clorox is very, very dangerous.

BLITZER: Very...

ERNST: And I'm shocked that my first national interview is -- first lines is, I have to tell -- remind people not to drink Clorox.

BLITZER: Yes, I'm shocked that I even have to ask a question like that.
 
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Joe Bagadonuts said:
Hey I just want to say to y'all who believe everything the media says. Trump never said to inject yourself with Lysol. Yeah, he probably shouldn't speculated about vague ideas for a cure, that's not his job. But at least he didn't say what the leftists are screaming from the rooftops claiming that he did. I mean, just because you are gullible and blindly follow whatever crisis NBC manufacturing at the moment in order to pursue their twisted agenda doesn't mean that you need to help them sow division.
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Joe Bagadonuts said:
Turn on CNN or MSNBC. They are saying repeatedly that Trump instructed Americans to inject Lysol into their veins and to drink bleach. .
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Complete fabrication


Unless "repeatedly" means "never" in Trumpsylvania.

Waiting for retraction.
 
One Brow said:
I don't know if I will vote for Biden or not. I respect those who say he is less of a rapist than Trump (lesser of two evils), and those who who say they won't vote for any rapist period. I do believe Tara Reade. Biden stepping aside would be ideal.
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The thing that is so frustrating to me is this is the kind issue that should have been exposed during the primaries. This is not a new claim. It is no more verifiable now than it was three months ago. Why did it take this long for it to become a serious claim? The dnc/system failed hard on this. It's not like democratic voters don't care about this issue. I can't believe that had it all been revealed and seriously discussed earlier it would not have killed the Biden campaign. I also doubt Biden will step down. This could likely be this issue that convinces the undecided to opt out all together, thereby gifting Trump, who is 10 times the sleaze bag Biden is accused of being, another 4 years.
 
silesian said:
Complete fabrication


Unless "repeatedly" means "never" in Trumpsylvania.

Waiting for retraction.
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The disconnect in this country at the moment is really quite extraordinary. Here are three quotes from the transcript I provided. I could easily find more:
Wolfe Blitzer, "...the president knew he was about to be bombarded with very serious, important questions about what he said yesterday, which turned out to be a flat lie, as far as ingesting and -- various products that could kill you, potentially."
Jim Acosta, "This is a president who is feeling the heat big time, after he made that outlandish, ridiculous comment yesterday that people could inject themselves potentially with household disinfectants as a cure for the coronavirus."
Sanjay Gupta, "The president specifically suggested that potentially injecting some sort of disinfectant into your body might be a possible way to deal with coronavirus."

I'm fortunate to have a lot better and more pressing things to do than continue this conversation. Good luck walking whatever fine line you think excuses these statements as accurate reporting. We are in agreement that the president should not be speculating, especially publically, about things like this. We are clearly in disagreement over whether it is okay to report these sorts of things in the way that so much of the media is doing.

BTW, if you are able to walk that fine line the Biden campaign and all of the democrats who have lined up to support him desperately need your help. They need to figure out a way to explain why the sexual allegations their candidate is facing fall into a completely different category than those leveled at Brett Kavanaugh which many of them claimed ought to be believed simply because they were alleged. The situation is especially challenging due to the fact that Kavanaugh's accuser could never prove that she'd actually even met him, and each of her purported corroborates testified that they could not recall the event. Meanwhile there is contemporaneous tape of Biden's accuser's mother laying the situation out on national television and there is a Democratic witness who is a close friend of the accuser who recalls hearing the story at that time, and who claims that the witness is honest and trustworthy.

But I'm sure you will find a way to accomplish that balancing act. Political partisans nearly always do. And yes, I am including myself in that statement. It is amazing to me that the pathway so many of you claim has become impossible to tread still feels relatively easy for me.
 
Stars Fan said:
The thing that is so frustrating to me is this is the kind issue that should have been exposed during the primaries. This is not a new claim. It is no more verifiable now than it was three months ago. Why did it take this long for it to become a serious claim? The dnc/system failed hard on this. It's not like democratic voters don't care about this issue. I can't believe that had it all been revealed and seriously discussed earlier it would not have killed the Biden campaign. I also doubt Biden will step down. This could likely be this issue that convinces the undecided to opt out all together, thereby gifting Trump, who is 10 times the sleaze bag Biden is accused of being, another 4 years.
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If your question is why this wasn’t vetted during the primaries, the answer is Bernie Sanders. I’ve stated before that we’ve heard more about Bernie’s alleged sexism than we ever heard about this Biden claim. “The establishment,” for however cliché that term may be, does not like Sanders, despite prominent genuflection to some progressive ideals (mostly as a way to virtue signal against the right).
 
It is funny how polarized everyone is on this discussion about injecting disinfectants. I am expecting someone to soon say "it depends on what the definition of 'is' is". No the dudes in the transcript never exactly uttered the words, verbatim "President Trump instructed all Americans to drop what they are doing and immediately inject disinfectants into their veins to stop COVID-19". But they also never said "Trump implied, through unfounded conjecture, that his opinion was that maybe injecting disinfectants might be a possible cure for COVID-19. Maybe. But he totally wasn't serious." As usual the truth lies somewhere in between. To be fair, it is closer to the latter than the former, but using the "reasonable person" standard it is not far-fetched to say that they implied that Trump was seriously recommending injecting disinfectants to combat the coronavirus. It is not a huge twisting of all that is Good and Right to say they were purposely, and strongly, implying that the President legitimately recommended this as a course of treatment, which he did not.

To be clear, I think the president is an *** and should be held accountable for the comments he made, as I already made clear in a previous post, I believe a person with that level of authority making a comment in that context is akin to the proverbial shouting fire in a crowded theater. Frankly, he should be held accountable for reckless comments like that.

But the media are not doing anything to slow the roll, instead they are fanning the flames because that gets them clicks and views. Talking in a reasonable manner does not. So they push the edges of it, making sure to be as inflammatory as possible, choosing verbiage that leaves them a sliver of plausible deniability, all the while being very aware of how what they are saying will be taken, because pissed off people make them more money than happy people do. That is just fact. And I believe there should be some level of accountability for that as well.

And if you seriously believe that all human communication is fully centered around the exact verbatim exchange of words without any nuance of implication in how it is being said or the choice of words (such as "specifically suggested"...specifically in this case tends to push the listener in the direction of "this is truth") having any impact then you are among the most stupid humans that exist. I said that very plainly because if you do believe that I don't want you to get caught up in the implication side of things.
 
Sadly it is true that Biden will not be held to the same standard of conduct that anyone else would be. The democrats cannot afford to lose any momentum right now, especially because it is questionable if Biden can beat Trump in the first place. I fully believe it could come out that he engaged in a full-on forcible rape and it would be conveniently shunted aside. It is at that point in the game where any disruption would really mar their chances to win, and so he needs to be protected, no matter who is hurt in the process.

To be fair I think that the total number of politicians who have not engaged in sexist behavior of some kind can all fit on the head of a pin. Of course that is probably true of all males, so there is that I guess.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
The disconnect in this country at the moment is really quite extraordinary. Here are three quotes from the transcript I provided. I could easily find more:
Wolfe Blitzer, "...the president knew he was about to be bombarded with very serious, important questions about what he said yesterday, which turned out to be a flat lie, as far as ingesting and -- various products that could kill you, potentially."
Jim Acosta, "This is a president who is feeling the heat big time, after he made that outlandish, ridiculous comment yesterday that people could inject themselves potentially with household disinfectants as a cure for the coronavirus."
Sanjay Gupta, "The president specifically suggested that potentially injecting some sort of disinfectant into your body might be a possible way to deal with coronavirus."
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Here's the thing. "ingesting ... potentially", "inject themselves potentially" and "injecting ... disinfectant ... a possible way" are all reasoned and accurate descriptions of what Trump said. If you don't think so, I would really like to hear your interpretation of Trump's words, and how it differs.

Joe Bagadonuts said:
I'm fortunate to have a lot better and more pressing things to do than continue this conversation.
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We often feel that way when we can't support what we are saying.

Joe Bagadonuts said:
Good luck walking whatever fine line you think excuses these statements as accurate reporting.
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No fine line needed. It is accurate reporting, period.

Joe Bagadonuts said:
BTW, if you are able to walk that fine line the Biden campaign and all of the democrats who have lined up to support him desperately need your help. They need to figure out a way to explain why the sexual allegations their candidate is facing fall into a completely different category than those leveled at Brett Kavanaugh ...
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The allegations against Biden are worse than those against Kavanaugh. However, Biden is not running against Kavanaugh, he's running against Trump. The allegations against Biden are of much less severity than the allegations against Trump.

Joe Bagadonuts said:
But I'm sure you will find a way to accomplish that balancing act.
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If the choice is between Kavanaugh and Biden for President, I might vote for Kavanaugh on that issue alone. Where can I cast that vote?
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
The disconnect in this country at the moment is really quite extraordinary. Here are three quotes from the transcript I provided. I could easily find more:
Wolfe Blitzer, "...the president knew he was about to be bombarded with very serious, important questions about what he said yesterday, which turned out to be a flat lie, as far as ingesting and -- various products that could kill you, potentially."
Jim Acosta, "This is a president who is feeling the heat big time, after he made that outlandish, ridiculous comment yesterday that people could inject themselves potentially with household disinfectants as a cure for the coronavirus."
Sanjay Gupta, "The president specifically suggested that potentially injecting some sort of disinfectant into your body might be a possible way to deal with coronavirus."

I'm fortunate to have a lot better and more pressing things to do than continue this conversation. Good luck walking whatever fine line you think excuses these statements as accurate reporting. We are in agreement that the president should not be speculating, especially publically, about things like this. We are clearly in disagreement over whether it is okay to report these sorts of things in the way that so much of the media is doing.

BTW, if you are able to walk that fine line the Biden campaign and all of the democrats who have lined up to support him desperately need your help. They need to figure out a way to explain why the sexual allegations their candidate is facing fall into a completely different category than those leveled at Brett Kavanaugh which many of them claimed ought to be believed simply because they were alleged. The situation is especially challenging due to the fact that Kavanaugh's accuser could never prove that she'd actually even met him, and each of her purported corroborates testified that they could not recall the event. Meanwhile there is contemporaneous tape of Biden's accuser's mother laying the situation out on national television and there is a Democratic witness who is a close friend of the accuser who recalls hearing the story at that time, and who claims that the witness is honest and trustworthy.

But I'm sure you will find a way to accomplish that balancing act. Political partisans nearly always do. And yes, I am including myself in that statement. It is amazing to me that the pathway so many of you claim has become impossible to tread still feels relatively easy for me.
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none of those quotes support your claim.

have a nice day.
 
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