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2020 All-Time Draft - Round 1: silesian vs Ellis269

Who would win in a 7 game series?


  • Total voters
    19
  • Poll closed .
Magic: 30.3%
Moncrief:28.4%
Barry: 29.7%
Marion: 33.1%
Kareem: 05.6%

There’s almost zero stretching of the floor going on by silesian here. That’s a huge issue for me.
The write up helped me; smash the opposition on D and overwhelm them in transition. Showtime Lakers on steroids.

Once it gets into the half court, IDK. I can’t say much about how many classic players Silesian has or how their talent would translate today, but Barry was regarded as a great shooter for his time IIRC and I think it is sensible to translate skills relative to their time. That being said, I don’t know a ton about Barry and would probably never pick him myself.
 
Once it gets into the half court, IDK. I can’t say much about how many classic players Silesian has or how their talent would translate today, but Barry was regarded as a great shooter for his time IIRC and I think it is sensible to translate skills relative to their time. That being said, I don’t know a ton about Barry and would probably never pick him myself.


The lakers beat the sixers in the finals by running their half court offense through Magic playing center when Kareem was injured. Magic will create effectively in the half court, especially against AI and Reggie.
 
Ron has always been overly enamored with athleticism and players who are unique in some way. It makes sense given his background.
Yes, I tend to think players that are physically dominating are generally better. Skills are very important as well though. But I'll take the person with equal or close skills and better physical attributes. Mostly I just love how worked up thee gets about the word pure PG. It's just some made up thing to justify why he thinks Stockton is better than Magic.
 
I am never sure why Hakeem is always drafted in these ahead of Kareem. I think a lot of it is because a good chunk of the board remembers watching Hakeem play and it was during some of their favorite time to watch. Including myself I think very few watched much of Kareem. But stats wise Kareem is the better player. Both were Rookie of the year. Both were finals MVP 2X. Both were MVPs but Kareem also was MVP 5 more times on top of that. Kareem has more championships, more all-star games, more all defensive team, more scoring champ,and more blocks champ. Hakeem was DPOY 2X and Kareem was not. So for their career its easily Kareem by a decent amount. I think the other argument people use was Hakeem's peak was better but even that the stats favor Kareem. This is their best year:
https://www.basketball-reference.co...y2=1993&player_id2=olajuha01&idx=bbr__players

Kareem is 8 more points per game on better shooting %. He also has more rebounds and all the advanced stats prefer Kareem. Then there are the playoff stats that strongly prefer Kareem.

So why do people prefer Olajuwon? To me Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is easily the better player.
 
I am never sure why Hakeem is always drafted in these ahead of Kareem. I think a lot of it is because a good chunk of the board remembers watching Hakeem play and it was during some of their favorite time to watch. Including myself I think very few watched much of Kareem. But stats wise Kareem is the better player. Both were Rookie of the year. Both were finals MVP 2X. Both were MVPs but Kareem also was MVP 5 more times on top of that. Kareem has more championships, more all-star games, more all defensive team, more scoring champ,and more blocks champ. Hakeem was DPOY 2X and Kareem was not. So for their career its easily Kareem by a decent amount. I think the other argument people use was Hakeem's peak was better but even that the stats favor Kareem. This is their best year:
https://www.basketball-reference.co...y2=1993&player_id2=olajuha01&idx=bbr__players

Kareem is 8 more points per game on better shooting %. He also has more rebounds and all the advanced stats prefer Kareem. Then there are the playoff stats that strongly prefer Kareem.

So why do people prefer Olajuwon? To me Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is easily the better player.
That’s easy: he’s the best defender of all time (at least in the statistical era, I think it would be hard to make a quantitative or even qualitative argument for Bill Russell who is the only other on that tier and who was not half as good as Hakeem was on offense).

Hakeem also played in a tougher era and didn’t have Oscar Robertson, or Magic Johnson, or James Worthy. By the time he got any help in namesake, he had already carried a team on his back to a ring, and Clyde was a shadow of his former self by that time. Chuck was as well, besides being a sorry defensive player and perpetually unconditioned.

Different players have different strengths and weaknesses in different eras. I am not that confident Kareem had the speed to anchor a modern NBA defense at an acceptable level. Meanwhile, Hakeem not only has a Stockton-esque stranglehold on the blocks record, he could guard anyone on the floor while being strong enough to weather and best Shaq at his physical apex.
 
That’s easy: he’s the best defender of all time (at least in the statistical era, I think it would be hard to make a quantitative or even qualitative argument for Bill Russell who is the only other on that tier and who was not half as good as Hakeem was on offense).

Hakeem also played in a tougher era and didn’t have Oscar Robertson, or Magic Johnson, or James Worthy. By the time he got any help in namesake, he had already carried a team on his back to a ring, and Clyde was a shadow of his former self by that time. Chuck was as well, besides being a sorry defensive player and perpetually unconditioned.

Different players have different strengths and weaknesses in different eras. I am not that confident Kareem had the speed to anchor a modern NBA defense at an acceptable level. Meanwhile, Hakeem not only has a Stockton-esque stranglehold on the blocks record, he could guard anyone on the floor while being strong enough to weather and best Shaq at his physical apex.

Hakeem was a great defender. I didnt watch enough to know about Kareem. He was known as an elite defender though and was on the all defensive team almost every year of his career. Hakeem has a stranglehold on the blocks record due to lack of record keeping though. Other players would likely be ahead of him. Its actually pretty safe to say if Kareem would be the all-time blocks leader if they kept that stat his first 4 years. He would only have had to average 160 blocks a year for those first 4 years. Some of those years were his peak stats years. The only time he didnt get those kind of blocks numbers were when he was in his late 30s and 40s.

Kareem did have more help but thats why he has more championships. But Kareem took over big time in a lot of those championship runs, he was also going up against multiple HOF players. He played against a lot of really good bigs. Also Clyde was 32 and was still putting up 21 ppg, 4.4 apg, and 7 rpg. He was a very good player still. Outside of 2 elite years for Clyde this is on par for most of his other seasons. It was probably his 4th best season of his career.

They did overlap but it was early for Hakeem and late for Kareem. It would have been nice to see them play each other in their peak. Kareem schooled him pretty hard early but Hakeem started to get the best of him when he was in his late 30s and 40s. Even at 39 years old Kareem was still dropping 30+ point games on him. But Hakeem was only 24 and really he peaked at 31 or so.
 
I guess a lot of the respect for Hakeem is because he beat up the Jazz. Those are hard years to look at when Rockets won back to back. Jazz really should have beat them those years. That game 6 the Jazz had Malone play well but that was it. Stockton was 4 for 14 in a real close game. Hakeem and Drexler both dropped 30. Stockton had been solid the rest of the series. Lots of would have could haves for the Jazz.
 
Is this the most amount of 1st round picks traded away ever?

Parlayed the 14th pick into two top 5 players.

In terms of realistic winning, team building is not about just adding the most alpha dog high scoring superstars. I think most folks just vote matchups versus how whether the team philosophy makes sense and how well the team would do in a real game. The late 1970s Sixers added superstar stud George McGinnis to Dr J and this was supposed to be the best SG/ SF combo ever. They did not get better. Many teams in this tournament would suffer similar fates.
 
I am never sure why Hakeem is always drafted in these ahead of Kareem. I think a lot of it is because a good chunk of the board remembers watching Hakeem play and it was during some of their favorite time to watch.

"Familiarity bias is the preference of the individuals to remain confined to what is familiar to them. They wish to remain within their comfort zone and do not want to take the path never taken. Humans have a tendency to believe more in the choice that they recognize and are aware of."
 
Parlayed the 14th pick into two top 5 players.

In terms of realistic winning, team building is not about just adding the most alpha dog high scoring superstars. I think most folks just vote matchups versus how whether the team philosophy makes sense and how well the team would do in a real game. The late 1970s Sixers added superstar stud George McGinnis to Dr J and this was supposed to be the best SG/ SF combo ever. They did not get better. Many teams in this tournament would suffer similar fates.
I think team and fit can matter but talent generally trumps that. Two star players being added and not improving the team points to the lack of their talent more than a bad for to me, or possibly regression.

LeBron's and Wade are great examples. They were a terrible fit but figured it out to be great together.
 
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