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Collier’s Future

Of course Collier averages more assist because he's not a good scorer yet, but he isnt just doing the dribble the ball at the top of the key and make the pass thing (the thing that Keyonte kind of did when he first got the starting job his rookie year). He's actively getting downhill and setting players up through his ability to make things happen. He's got just enough rim pressure threat to keep defenses honest to open up those passes.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
For a point guard, averaging an absolute **** ton of assists while having a very small usage % and playing just 23mpg is a dead giveway of being unable or unwilling to shoot. Often both.

(See: Rubio, Ricky.)

I like Collier a lot but he's still in his honeymoon phase with the NBA. The league is in the process of figuring out his non-shooting, and in the next stage, teams will start to play way off him. He's quick and strong, but those advantages will be mitigated by defenders giving him tons of space.

The age of the "pass first, pass second" PG is over. At least for starting players.
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do you watch jazz games? they've been playing way off him and giving him tons of space since about day one.
 
Collier had 13 assists against the suns. 10 came in the first half. The adjustment the Suns made was to not help off their man when he drove in to the paint. That made it so Colliers aggressive drives didn't pull a defender so he had to look to score more.

He got 12 points in the second half along with 3 assists. He also didn't run an amazing offense.

In order to open up his game he will need to become a 3 level scorer. He is obviously finishing better at the rim than before but I would give him the layup before helping off of other players. His jumper 20 feet out is pretty solid. His 3 point shot is Ronnie Brewer rookie season level right now.

But guys learn how to shoot in this league. That will determine his ceiling more than anything methinks.
 
The Jazz Wonderbra said:
Collier had 13 assists against the suns. 10 came in the first half. The adjustment the Suns made was to not help off their man when he drove in to the paint. That made it so Colliers aggressive drives didn't pull a defender so he had to look to score more.

He got 12 points in the second half along with 3 assists. He also didn't run an amazing offense.

In order to open up his game he will need to become a 3 level scorer. He is obviously finishing better at the rim than before but I would give him the layup before helping off of other players. His jumper 20 feet out is pretty solid. His 3 point shot is Ronnie Brewer rookie season level right now.

But guys learn how to shoot in this league. That will determine his ceiling more than anything methinks.
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He doesnt *need* to be a 3 level scorer. The biggest thing is he has to learn to get to the foul line off his drives and know how to get his shot off in the paint.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
For a point guard, averaging an absolute **** ton of assists while having a very small usage % and playing just 23mpg is a dead giveway of being unable or unwilling to shoot. Often both.

(See: Rubio, Ricky.)

I like Collier a lot but he's still in his honeymoon phase with the NBA. The league is in the process of figuring out his non-shooting, and in the next stage, teams will start to play way off him. He's quick and strong, but those advantages will be mitigated by defenders giving him tons of space.

The age of the "pass first, pass second" PG is over. At least for starting players.
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In your post, you assume that young Collier, who has just started in the NBA, will not improve as a player. Also, your claim that the era of pass-first PGs is over is baloney. But as always on this board, you just had to come up with a negative take, didn’t you? No one knows yet what Collier will become, but at least give the kid a chance.
 
underdog said:
In your post, you assume that young Collier, who has just started in the NBA, will not improve as a player. Also, your claim that the era of pass-first PGs is over is baloney. But as always on this board, you just had to come up with a negative take, didn’t you? No one knows yet what Collier will become, but at least give the kid a chance.
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Isaiah Jaden Collier is a player with prescient “passing” abilities. Nay, his throwing into the goal is not as splendiferous, but I look forward to the day when thy Jazz announcers proclaim “nothing but goal.” Like tears in rain, may his shooting problems vanish without trace.
 
seattlejazzfan said:
do you watch jazz games? they've been playing way off him and giving him tons of space since about day one.
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The thing that allows him to be effective is the rare ability to get so downhill that playing off him sometimes either doesn’t work or actively backfires. It will allow him to get on the court and work on deepening that strength and work on weaknesses. But, just being good enough to deserve playing time is the first checkpoint to sticking around in the league and we should celebrate that every time.
 
NUMBERICA said:
The thing that allows him to be effective is the rare ability to get so downhill that playing off him sometimes either doesn’t work or actively backfires. It will allow him to get on the court and work on deepening that strength and work on weaknesses. But, just being good enough to deserve playing time is the first checkpoint to sticking around in the league and we should celebrate that every time.
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yup, it's a similar phenomenon that you get when you play against Zion. you back off, give them space because they can't shoot, but it backfires in the sense that really all you're doing is giving them a runway and they know what to do with it. it's just more space they can use to attack.
 
RandyForRubio said:
I haven’t seen a game all year because I’m cheap…how is his defense?
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I am not the stats guy but on the court he is a poacher who anticipates passing lanes well. Not sure if he is a plus defender or not. But he has a strong frame so he doesn't get bullied out there. He does most of the bullying.
 
Predraft I was optimistic about Collier's scoring at the basket/FT line and his finishing in the NBA has been pretty good so far. 66% from the rim and 45% from floater range is not bad. I'd like to see his FTr get higher (he was great in college), but that can come with time. Very few players get to dominate the ball all game unless they are extremely good, so he'll likely need to be some kind of threat without it, but I think he's on a pathway to be at least good enough to be a rotation player with his drive and kick game. He's kind of like Ish Smith but built like a tank.
 
KqWIN said:
Predraft I was optimistic about Collier's scoring at the basket/FT line and his finishing in the NBA has been pretty good so far. 66% from the rim and 45% from floater range is not bad. I'd like to see his FTr get higher (he was great in college), but that can come with time. Very few players get to dominate the ball all game unless they are extremely good, so he'll likely need to be some kind of threat without it, but I think he's on a pathway to be at least good enough to be a rotation player with his drive and kick game. He's kind of like Ish Smith but built like a tank.
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Less explosive, at least vertically, John Wall
 
I guess maybe it's time to close the thread because the usual morons have come in here and taken their usual deuces.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Less explosive, at least vertically, John Wall
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Sure….I think you can look at Ish->Collier->Wall as a Pokémon evolution lol. I also think he functionally works similar to what WB is right now. These players really need the team/lineup built around them in a specific way, but the flip side of that is that they can really elevate a team if the situation is right. Collier will never have that athleticism that Wall/WB had that allowed them to be stars….but maybe he can be a better shooter. His shot looks really awful so I’m not going to be too optimistic, but if he can build on his drive/kick foundation I think he can be a role player for some time.

Being a positive defender will also go a long way. Hard to evaluate any individual in this dumpster fire defense, but I think he has the mentality and attributes to be a good defender.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Of course Collier averages more assist because he's not a good scorer yet, but he isnt just doing the dribble the ball at the top of the key and make the pass thing (the thing that Keyonte kind of did when he first got the starting job his rookie year). He's actively getting downhill and setting players up through his ability to make things happen. He's got just enough rim pressure threat to keep defenses honest to open up those passes.
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I'm glad there's one thing about this squad we can all agree on.
 
KqWIN said:
Predraft I was optimistic about Collier's scoring at the basket/FT line and his finishing in the NBA has been pretty good so far. 66% from the rim and 45% from floater range is not bad. I'd like to see his FTr get higher (he was great in college), but that can come with time. Very few players get to dominate the ball all game unless they are extremely good, so he'll likely need to be some kind of threat without it, but I think he's on a pathway to be at least good enough to be a rotation player with his drive and kick game. He's kind of like Ish Smith but built like a tank.
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If Collier develops any type of catch and shoot game he's going to be so good. If i had to choose then that aspect of the game would be my biggest IF for him to succeed in a big role in nba.
 
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