I can't believe I'm falling for this troll attempt, but nobody elevated Ace over Lauri. It's simply talking about a player's strengths and weakness. Ace's strengths are exactly what Lauri's weakness is, so why are we comparing the two? If I said Ace was a bad comparison to Gobert because he's a different player with different strengths and weaknesses that is in no way shape or form saying he's better than Gobert. When people compare prospects to players, they are not literally comparing how good they are at the moment....but of course, anyone with half a brain would understand that.
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I can't believe I'm falling for this troll attempt, but nobody elevated Ace over Lauri. It's simply talking about a player's strengths and weakness. Ace's strengths are exactly what Lauri's weakness is, so why are we comparing the two? If I said Ace was a bad comparison to Gobert because he's a different player with different strengths and weaknesses that is in no way shape or form saying he's better than Gobert. When people compare prospects to players, they are not literally comparing how good they are at the moment....but of course, anyone with half a brain would understand that.
HadAnEffectHere
Well-Known Member
Derrick Favors got a ton of post-ups in college simply because he was huge and had good hands and good touch and was much better than other college players so that was the best option for Georgia Tech.
In the NBA, he got very few post-ups after his first few years simply because he wasn't good at enough at those to justify it.
I don't think Ace's skillset translates well at all to iso scoring in the NBA. He can't even get good shots in college and his efficiency is below average even for a college player. I think he'll eventually be a completely off-ball player except against switches against very small guys.
Kind of similar to Harrison Barnes as well.
In the NBA, he got very few post-ups after his first few years simply because he wasn't good at enough at those to justify it.
I don't think Ace's skillset translates well at all to iso scoring in the NBA. He can't even get good shots in college and his efficiency is below average even for a college player. I think he'll eventually be a completely off-ball player except against switches against very small guys.
Kind of similar to Harrison Barnes as well.
Barnes makes sense to me. Chances are he'll be a mediocre scorer like Barnes was in DAL or become a useful role player like Barnes was elsewhere. Still, Ace has a lot of potential to me more (or less). He's kind of a poor man's version of Jabari Smith as a prospect. I'm surprised that Jabari isn't better than he is, but if Ace ended up as good as Jabari is right now I would say that's about as expected or even consider it an above average outcome.
The Lauri comparison makes no sense to me because his strengths are completely different to Lauri's and Lauri isn't Lauri just because he can't create shots. Barnes and Smith cannot create, that doesn't mean they are Lauri. That comparison essentially ignores the best aspects of either player which are completely different.
First off, comparing the success of a post player from college to NBA the same way as an isolation perimeter player is ridiculous. The NBA doesnt want post players unless they are incredibly elite at it and arent interested in really fostering that development unless the players shows they are exceptional at it early on.
2nd of all, Favors didnt get those touches early on because he was on a team with Paul Millsap, Al Jefferson, and Enes Kanter. He was stuck inbetween positions all of his career in Utah. At one point they wanted him to be a mid-range shooting PF, then they wanted him to be a center, then they wanted him to be a PF again who could maybe shoot 3's.
3rd. A 6'10 iso player isnt going to be successful because they are great at creating separation and getting easy shots. They excel at hitting difficult shots and then using their size near the basket to be able to convert.
SoberasHotRod
Well-Known Member
Peja's son is currently carrying Cal to a win 2OT in the ACC tourney. Lawal has had some great moments in this game as well.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
I’d say he hit on Hood in the early 20’s. And think his career would’ve been better had he not had all the minor injuries
A 6-10 JC I’m totally drooling over. How would anyone stop a 6-10 JC from scoring?
I’ll also take a 6-10 Barnes, but imo I don’t see Barnes in Ace.
What is that 20 minutes out of 2000-3000 minutes. I’m sure there are countless minutes of him looking awkward, trying to create, I know I’ve seen plenty 20 minutes of highlights doesn’t prove he’s a strong creator. I wouldn’t say he’s a bad creator, but I wouldn’t call it a strength either.
jom2003
Well-Known Member
I mean Ace absolute ceiling is like a MPJ, who still wouldn't be anyway near the “best player in the draft”. Maybe for last year.
fishonjazz
Well-Known Member
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How many post ups did favors get per game? How many was the average post ups per game in college basketball that season?
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
The more I study Edgecomb the more I’m convinced he’s the second superstar in this draft. I would also call him the second most complete player in this draft.
I’m guessing he’s the best athlete in the draft since at least Ant, and my biggest thing with him is his drive and how he competes.
I recognize that Harper is widely recognized as the #2 prospect, and truthfully I don’t know his game that well so I can’t just arbitrarily put him ahead of Harper, but if the Jazz get the second pick and take VJ, I won’t complain. Am I crazy?
@Saint Cy of JFC or someone that knows Harper’s game describe it for me?
I’m guessing he’s the best athlete in the draft since at least Ant, and my biggest thing with him is his drive and how he competes.
I recognize that Harper is widely recognized as the #2 prospect, and truthfully I don’t know his game that well so I can’t just arbitrarily put him ahead of Harper, but if the Jazz get the second pick and take VJ, I won’t complain. Am I crazy?
@Saint Cy of JFC or someone that knows Harper’s game describe it for me?
jom2003
Well-Known Member
Yeah but just barely. Like “hitting on Grayson Allen” with the 21 the pick in 2018 but when in reality, that 2018 class was so deep that if you are to do a redraft, Allen would actually be selected after the 21th.
If we do a redraft of 2014 class, I think there's a good chance that Hood would still be there at 23rd cuz they are about roughly 20+ players I'd still take ahead of him in that class.
Good lord you are full of so much ****.
Please produce the list of 21 players you'd take over Grayson Allen in the 2018 draft.
I went through the 2018 draft, and being as unkind as possible to Allen, the absolute lowest he would go in a re-draft is 19.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
I doubt it, but still even if that’s true he’s still got to make the right pick. I do recall most of the dudes in that range being all scrubs. And I recall the teens not being all that good either. That wasn’t a great draft to be honest.
Every GM has its hits and misses, and to be honest picking two all stars in a 3 year period at 13 and 27 is impressive and damn good work. And those weren’t just two guys that fell into his lap, he identified them then traded for those picks which makes it that much more impressive
underdog
Well-Known Member
I loved those Mike Conley's passes to Lauri. Played real well together.
jom2003
Well-Known Member
Ayton
Luka
JJJ
Trae
WCJ
Sexton
Mikal Bridges
Miles Bridges
SGA
MPJ
Donte
Simons
RWIII
Brunson
Mitch Robinson
Gary Trent Jr
Vando
Bruce Brown
Duncan Robinson
Thats 19 already.
And about 8 more guys Allen go toe and toe with: Bagley, MoWagner, Huerter, Milton, Shamet, Melton, Highsmith and Kenrich Williams.
Its not like Allen's having a great year either. I know his % are decent but as a guy with a PG's size who can't really guard PGs, KD clearly wants him off the team right now, with coach Bud's favoritism being the only reason he's still getting minutes. So I was being generous.
View: https://youtu.be/r4nWmgLcmII?si=f6QYi5xtDRzmhYYT
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LMAO miss me with Gary Trent, Duncan Robinson, and Vando. And especially with those others you listed after 19
IMO - Bailey's ballhandling isn't so bad to the point where I don't think he can tighten it up and eventually create his own offense in the NBA. There aren't many 6'10" guys who come into league with plus-handles at the NBA level and his overall "shot-making" repertoire is quite advanced.
He'd be wise to develop a back to the basket game, a la Kevin Durant. KD was lethal from the midpost / high-post in college (15+ feet). His wingspan makes those shots truly unguardable but Ace could still punish smaller defenders with his size.
He'd be wise to develop a back to the basket game, a la Kevin Durant. KD was lethal from the midpost / high-post in college (15+ feet). His wingspan makes those shots truly unguardable but Ace could still punish smaller defenders with his size.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Bronson shouldn’t count. He was a second round draft pick.
jom2003
Well-Known Member
lol Trent averaged 18ppg on a 48 win Toronto. When has Allen ever done something like that?
Duncan Robinson performed on the biggest stage in NBA finals. And when had Allen reached the floor of NBA finals? And name me one thing that Allen does that Robinson can't? Allen is a PG in size who can't guard PGs. Basically a total liability on defense. Duncan Robinson at least has the length so it's easier to hide him on D. Allen would have been subbed out by Spoelstra if he's on the heat.
jom2003
Well-Known Member
The only way to judge whether you hit or miss on a draft pick is through a redraft. To see whether the player you took at your draft position was the best player available at that position.