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Ace Bailey ROY watch

Tremendous Upside said:
I didn't say anything about "leading". Not the same as creating shots (which people are obviously hoping he'll do eventually... he wasn't drafted to be another off ball player).

Anyway, just an observation. Right now, it seems that Ace's motor and off ball game are better than advertised and on ball game slightly worse than advertised. I have faith though.
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it was that you said "depend on" him to create shots" really the only guys this team depends on to create shots are key and lauri - the two leaders of the team. everybody else (including Ace) either just picks their spots or relies on other dudes to set them up. and yeah, he wasn't drafted to be another off ball player, but again, he's a 19 year old who has played about 20 nba games.

to be clear, i know you're not ripping him or being negative about him and we're probably basically on the same page about where he is at - just "voicing" things a tad different.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Right now Ace plays much better when there's an actual offensive framework and other scorers around him. He's nowhere near ready for a role where we depend on him to create shots.
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Part of the reason that you’re hard to tolerate is because you post things that are so obvious even Thurl Bailey is noting them regularly, but you post them with this erudite authority - as if you’re the purveyor of some lost, esoteric knowledge.

This is a perfect example of that, and I’m letting you know so that you’ll stop. If you’re like this outside these forums, you’re going to have a very lonely life.
 
seattlejazzfan said:
it was that you said "depend on" him to create shots" really the only guys this team depends on to create shots are key and lauri - the two leaders of the team. everybody else (including Ace) either just picks their spots or relies on other dudes to set them up. and yeah, he wasn't drafted to be another off ball player, but again, he's a 19 year old who has played about 20 nba games.

to be clear, i know you're not ripping him or being negative about him and we're probably basically on the same page about where he is at - just "voicing" things a tad different.
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Overall Ace has been a pleasant surprise for me. I wasn't a fan of his game in college but I don't have a problem eating crow. I like that he's trying to find his path in the NBA by hustling, doing the little things and taking what the game gives him, instead of acting all entitled as a high pick on a bad team. His body language has been good throughout.

He's not a good pro player yet, but I believe he has a very high ceiling. He has a lot of work to do (finishing through contact, getting to the line, ballhandling), but that's normal. It's good that he already seems to have found a place in the Jazz offense.

Maybe someday he'll be a guy who'll carry that offense.
 
fishonjazz said:
Since Ace has been starting he is shooting 62% from the field and over 38% from 3. Averaging over 14 points.
Anyone who thinks that isn't good has to be trolling
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Who said anything about that very small, cherry picked set of stats not being "good"? This is just a dumb strawman.

I said that I like him a lot and he seems to have a very high ceiling, but he's not a winning player yet. That is literally an observation based on facts. Even Brice has a much bigger impact. As far as advanced stats go, Ace exists in the bottom third of the roster in every metric, together with dudes like Collier and Cody. Yes he "looks" much better than them, but we're not eye testing here.

Why do we always have to go overboard once a rookie shows some promise? Ace has plenty of time to get better. But like three months ago there were people here saying he should be our #1 option this season, based on a couple of very unserious summer league games.

Just let him grow at his own pace and stop making him something he's not.
 
Also nice that Ace is a willing, good passer who crashes the boards and has a high effort great motor.
Awesome to have a rookie who is already a good NBA player.

Sucks he got hurt

Sent from my OPD2203 using Tapatalk
 
Ace needs to get a better feel for how to play defense in the floppy foul drawing NBA where defense is a sin.

His feel on offense is pretty good. He sees the court, and his passing/vision is great for a SF.

I think he'll be able to create for himself when hr tightens his handle and learns some pro moves.

I expect him to take a huge leap in year 2 when he has a summer to work on his game.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Still a bit worried by just how bad he is at driving to score the basketball at the rim. Everything else I'm happy with.
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He can't dribble at an NBA level. Do that and this won't be an issue. Should probably be his number 1 priority in the upcoming offseason. Watch hours of Durant dribbling and replicate it.
 
His lack of rim attempts/FT's aren't just handle, it's his instincts. Lauri doesn't dribble well either, but he goes hard to the basket. Getting to the FT line is largely about how a player approaches situations where there's a defender between him and the basket. Lauri goes straight to the cup and invite contact. I get the impression that Ace has always evaded defenders, shot over them, faded away etc. He plays in a manner to "get his shot off", which doesn't lend itself to many FT's.

Old habits die hard, but I'm hopeful this is something our coaching staff can help with.
 
KqWIN said:
His lack of rim attempts/FT's aren't just handle, it's his instincts. Lauri doesn't dribble well either, but he goes hard to the basket. Getting to the FT line is largely about how a player approaches situations where there's a defender between him and the basket. Lauri goes straight to the cup and invite contact. I get the impression that Ace has always evaded defenders, shot over them, faded away etc. He plays in a manner to "get his shot off", which doesn't lend itself to many FT's.

Old habits die hard, but I'm hopeful this is something our coaching staff can help with.
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Also seems like his role is to space the court in the corners where Lauri's role is much more than just a floor spacer.
 
fishonjazz said:
Also seems like his role is to space the court in the corners where Lauri's role is much more than just a floor spacer.
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It's true, but given the same situation, Lauri is putting his head down and going to the hoop even with defenders in his way. Ace would rather shoot a mid range jumper and/or evade the defense.
 
KqWIN said:
It's true, but given the same situation, Lauri is putting his head down and going to the hoop even with defenders in his way. Ace would rather shoot a mid range jumper and/or evade the defense.
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Then again, Lauri actively seeking contact near the basket and getting to the line is a pretty late development in his career. I'd say it started in the 22-23 season, when he finally understood how to use his size and strength against smaller defenders.

The other factor is that NBA refs don't like to automatically reward you for drawing contact unless you've first shown that you can finish through it. Collin Sexton's always had this problem – he goes hard to the rack and invites contact, but gets blocked all the time and ends up on his *** because he's tiny and his drives to the trees are so hopeless. You won't get the whistle in those cases.

Ace has to go through the hard path of learning how to play NBA basketball, where contact initiated by the offensive player is an integral part of the game. No reason to think he won't get there eventually.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Then again, Lauri actively seeking contact near the basket and getting to the line is a pretty late development in his career. I'd say it started in the 22-23 season, when he finally understood how to use his size and strength against smaller defenders.
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Exactly. On top of that, Lauri is more of a straight-line, full-speed-only type of athlete, so it was crucial for him to adapt to that bruiser playstyle.

Ace is a much more fluid athlete, so I don’t expect him to develop in a way that mirrors Lauri. He will find his ways.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Then again, Lauri actively seeking contact near the basket and getting to the line is a pretty late development in his career. I'd say it started in the 22-23 season, when he finally understood how to use his size and strength against smaller defenders.

The other factor is that NBA refs don't like to automatically reward you for drawing contact unless you've first shown that you can finish through it. Collin Sexton's always had this problem – he goes hard to the rack and invites contact, but gets blocked all the time and ends up on his *** because he's tiny and his drives to the trees are so hopeless. You won't get the whistle in those cases.

Ace has to go through the hard path of learning how to play NBA basketball, where contact initiated by the offensive player is an integral part of the game. No reason to think he won't get there eventually.
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Yes and no. Lauri had a good Ftr in college so the foundation was already there. It’s extremely rare for players to improve their FTr from college, less rare for guys who had a good FTr to start slow and improve their career over time. Lauri didn’t have to unwind the habits that Ace has to.

And even in the NBA, Lauri’s FTr has always been significantly higher than Ace. He had some early years in CHI that were pretty good, and his lowest was .177 when league wide average was .247. Ace is currently at .125 with league average at .282. It’s bigger hill to climb for Ace, and he doesn’t have the priors that Lauri did.
 
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