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Culture of winning or tank?

Win or tank?

  • Total voters
    91
What pick was brunson? Dude seems like an MVP level dude. As shocking as that is.

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JimLes said:
NBA teams have objectively gotten worse at drafting and there are more busts now than ever, especially at the top. Do you wanna pick top 5 instead of not picking top 5? Of course, of course. It's just that the cost of it may be greater than it seems.
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Actually, the opposite is true. The NBA teams were much, much worse at drafting in the past. This is the link to the first picks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_first_overall_NBA_draft_picks. Since they are color-coded you can see that back in the 60s and 70s many 1st picks simply failed to notch a single All-Star selection. And among those that did many ended up being only marginal All Stars. This has not changed much in the 80s, when Jordan, Malone, Barkley, Stockton, Drexler, Pippen were all taken later. Why? Because in the past the GMNs stubbornly drafted any decent looking centers with their 1st and 2nd picks. That's how we kept ending up with olowokandis, kwame browns and sam bowies of the world.

It's only in the last 15-20 years when the teams started actually consider ALL positions for their top picks. And if you look at the last 5 drafts, 4 out of 5 first picks would still be selected first based on what we know today.
 
Of course teams became better at drafting over time: there is much more tape on prospects, much greater use of analytics, better understanding of what the teams can improve in prospects by coaching and physical programs. The reason why the draft is still far from certainty is because the talent pool has become became truly global and you have to somehow compare euros from the weak professional leagues against American players in the NCAA etc.

Also, the NBA stars have become much more skilled than before: they have to be able to score, defend on the perimeter, hit threes, be good passers, maintain their body for the entire season and, often, The international tournaments... In the past a good size and athleticism alone were a much better predictor of future prospects. You did not have to guess if this center could develop a three point game or that wing could become a good playmaker. Drafting teenagers into the hardest professional league is an incredibly hard job and, I think, those doing it should be appreciated a bit more.
 
No, the NBA teams have gotten objectively worse at drafting. It's that simple. Here's an article, along with its statistical analysis, as a start.

quantimschmitz.com

NBA teams have gotten worse at drafting. Why?

NBA teams have gotten worse at drafting over the last 40 years. I look into when this happened, how drafting high school players made the draft harder in the late 90s, and why the future of the NBA draft might be more full of draft day misses than ever before.
quantimschmitz.com quantimschmitz.com
 
I know i'm probably the only one on this forum who think DA really f... up with the team and should retire. We were one good player away to be able to go for a title ( need huge upgrade on O Neal) and DA decide to blow it up.... Result Don is shining at Cleveland, Rudy and Mike are so important for Minny that they re-sign longer term there. Cavs and Minny will be very good again the next 2 to 3 years, which make our pick really bad.
If we decide to tank, we should have done it 2 years ago and manage to have a chance to get Wemby.

Hope at least this year we end up getting number 1 or 2 at the draft. But i still believe we will need another 5 years to be good, and it's not even sure when you look players drafts on top recently.

JA is good but Memphis is far from a title contender.
Zion is good but NO is not.
This year Sarr and Risacher will be decent players but not franchise changing level type....

And even if we pickup a guy who become a top player, except Lauri, no one here is a starter in a contending team ( unless they improve by a mile for Kessler and Keyonte).

Time will tell.... but i still think the strategy was not the good one.
 
But.. but.. but.. we need to have winning culture or bust!!!

Let’s buy more players to make the play-in!!!

Play-in or bust!!!

F*** the Tank!

Winning culture or bust guissssssss!!
 
I say before season start that we were on a 7-10 years rebuild and i remember getting some comments i was too way pessimistic. We are in year number 3 and we just start to be bad.... yes will be a long and painful rebuild. In the same time, Don has never be so good and finally can be a leader and Rudy is near his best level. I still think DA f... up by large but will be very happy to be wrong.
 
Thought I'd bump this thread because this conversation is working it's way into every other thread. Thank god my past self didn't betray me (typos aside).

KqWIN said:
You’re right on all of this.The unfortunate reality is that there is no benefit to not tanking in the NBA. So however marginal the gains are for a single year, there are no gains for winning 20 games versus 30 games. In theory you should have more to begin with at 30 games. But it really depends on what’s delivering you those 30 games in terms of what that means for the future.

Generally, tanking is an often overrated strategy in my opinion. But the obsession of tanking is just a symptom of how fans have started to view the NBA. The NBA is not a league that lives on day to day competition. People don’t care about day to day competition, the only thing that matters is the future and the larger context. Winning games does not matter unless it means something for tomorrow.

I do feel like people buy into tanking because there is feeling that the team is working towards a title…even if they are disregarding the extremely low probability and unreliability of that strategy.

OTOH, I don’t really buy into the negative effects of tanking. I don’t think a culture is created when you win 30 games versus 20. If you win 30 games on the backs of vets who won’t be here in a couple years, you are worse off than the team that wins 20 on the backs of young players who are talented but simply not experienced enough and/or not ever going to be good enough. This is true independent of the draft incentive.

Also….More wins =\= better culture. You can win the maximum amount of games, have everyone happy, and it still be a negative basketball culture IMO. The most recent version of the Jazz was a perfect example. Trust team had its ups and downs, and there was constant talk about whether or not the players were best buds. Truth is, I don’t think the buddy buddy stuff mattered. I think the reason they failed is because they built bad habits during the regular season that set them up to fail in the preseason. This was true when they were best buds and had the best record and also when they were passive aggressively throwing jabs at each other in the media. The noise didn’t matter….what mattered is that they built a rigid brand of basketball that could not compete in the playoffs and did not have the ability to divert from their habits. You can obviously build bad habits from being in a situation where wins don’t matter, but that can also happen when trying to maximize wins.
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KqWIN said:
Thought I'd bump this thread because this conversation is working it's way into every other thread. Thank god my past self didn't betray me (typos aside).
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Its also just not mutually exclusive. Key sucked *** last year in games and it caused us to lose. It was the fuel for this summer. Imagine him not playing much during the year last year... would he make the leaps he's making this year.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Its also just not mutually exclusive. Key sucked *** last year in games and it caused us to lose. It was the fuel for this summer. Imagine him not playing much during the year last year... would he make the leaps he's making this year.
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Well he wasn't able to make any leaps this year don'tcha know? We were the worst team in the league last year and tanked hard as ****. The losing culture we established means he can't be making any leaps this season. Right?
 
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