What's new
By:

Culture of winning or tank?

Win or tank?

  • Total voters
    96
But.. but.. but.. we need to have winning culture or bust!!!

Let’s buy more players to make the play-in!!!

Play-in or bust!!!

F*** the Tank!

Winning culture or bust guissssssss!!
 
I say before season start that we were on a 7-10 years rebuild and i remember getting some comments i was too way pessimistic. We are in year number 3 and we just start to be bad.... yes will be a long and painful rebuild. In the same time, Don has never be so good and finally can be a leader and Rudy is near his best level. I still think DA f... up by large but will be very happy to be wrong.
 
Thought I'd bump this thread because this conversation is working it's way into every other thread. Thank god my past self didn't betray me (typos aside).

KqWIN said:
You’re right on all of this.The unfortunate reality is that there is no benefit to not tanking in the NBA. So however marginal the gains are for a single year, there are no gains for winning 20 games versus 30 games. In theory you should have more to begin with at 30 games. But it really depends on what’s delivering you those 30 games in terms of what that means for the future.

Generally, tanking is an often overrated strategy in my opinion. But the obsession of tanking is just a symptom of how fans have started to view the NBA. The NBA is not a league that lives on day to day competition. People don’t care about day to day competition, the only thing that matters is the future and the larger context. Winning games does not matter unless it means something for tomorrow.

I do feel like people buy into tanking because there is feeling that the team is working towards a title…even if they are disregarding the extremely low probability and unreliability of that strategy.

OTOH, I don’t really buy into the negative effects of tanking. I don’t think a culture is created when you win 30 games versus 20. If you win 30 games on the backs of vets who won’t be here in a couple years, you are worse off than the team that wins 20 on the backs of young players who are talented but simply not experienced enough and/or not ever going to be good enough. This is true independent of the draft incentive.

Also….More wins =\= better culture. You can win the maximum amount of games, have everyone happy, and it still be a negative basketball culture IMO. The most recent version of the Jazz was a perfect example. Trust team had its ups and downs, and there was constant talk about whether or not the players were best buds. Truth is, I don’t think the buddy buddy stuff mattered. I think the reason they failed is because they built bad habits during the regular season that set them up to fail in the preseason. This was true when they were best buds and had the best record and also when they were passive aggressively throwing jabs at each other in the media. The noise didn’t matter….what mattered is that they built a rigid brand of basketball that could not compete in the playoffs and did not have the ability to divert from their habits. You can obviously build bad habits from being in a situation where wins don’t matter, but that can also happen when trying to maximize wins.
Click to expand...
 
KqWIN said:
Thought I'd bump this thread because this conversation is working it's way into every other thread. Thank god my past self didn't betray me (typos aside).
Click to expand...
Its also just not mutually exclusive. Key sucked *** last year in games and it caused us to lose. It was the fuel for this summer. Imagine him not playing much during the year last year... would he make the leaps he's making this year.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Its also just not mutually exclusive. Key sucked *** last year in games and it caused us to lose. It was the fuel for this summer. Imagine him not playing much during the year last year... would he make the leaps he's making this year.
Click to expand...
Well he wasn't able to make any leaps this year don'tcha know? We were the worst team in the league last year and tanked hard as ****. The losing culture we established means he can't be making any leaps this season. Right?
 
The Jazz have done this pivot many times now. They quit half way through year 1. They quit half way through year 2. They let vets go before and during the season year 3. Before year 4 they traded Sexton and Collins for nothing. I don't think the Jazz value "winning culture" much either, and I agree with that! Those pivots were good moves....the problem is that they happened too late. Pride and greed is the real issue with this franchise. DA had too much greed and that cost this franchise. Nepo had no problem undoing his father's failures, but he wants the pride of winning 28 games.

I think the real losing culture is letting ego and greed dictate decision making.
 
Jaanipoeg said:
I got real condescending about Houston and their "losing culture" and that turned around pretty quick. Same with Detroit right now.

Coaching matters but I think cultures can flip pretty quick with the right approach
Click to expand...

I don't think we can totally dismiss this "winning culture" stuff. It probably has some truth to it and matters more to some players than others. But it's hard to argue that it has a prohibitive effect on the future success of the franchise. Pretty much every single "home grown" type of successful team has had a period of tanking. HOU and DET are good examples. Teams like OKC and CLE also had multiple years of tanking. TOR is second in the East and they were intentionally throwing games mid-game just a few months ago with a near identical roster and coaching staff. I'm not really worried about having a losing a culture.

Talent and strong coaching is king.
 
Got to break a few eggs to make an omelet. A little hit to the culture just doesn't scare me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top