The costs of gay marriage
- Thread starter The Thriller
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Sean
Well-Known Member
Incest has nothing to do with marriage. It's illegal on all grounds. Therefore, of course it would be illegal to marry your daughter. The idea does not apply to gay marriage, however, since there is no law that says homosexuality is a crime.
I don't care if you find it compelling or not because that really isn't my problem.
As for being called a bigot - cry me a river. When you're denied the right to marry your wife for a reason that is not illegal, we can talk. Until then, don't play the martyr. You just look foolish.
But I think this goes deeper to the point at hand - bigotry is perfectly tolerable in some instances to some groups of people. You found it perfectly okay to compare homosexuality to incest, which to me, is absolutely deplorable. Yet I doubt you'd be as easy going if someone compared Mormonism to a cult or something far worse. That disconnect with so many here in Utah who are LDS is absolutely appalling to me. They're a bunch of hypocrites. Here, for so much of their history, they were discriminated against because of something they believed and they have no problem applying that same discrimination to others - and it's not just in the form of gay marriage. Gay couples can't adopt. It's perfectly legal in Utah to fire someone for being gay. That's okay, though, because they're just gay.
It's perfectly acceptable to compare gays to pedophiles or incest or bestiality ... but dammit, don't you dare imply I'm a bigot for it!
Until you find an instance where the gay lifestyle is illegal, stop comparing their acts to things that aren't legal. That is absolute trash and bigoted ... whether you want to admit it or not.
It's a good thing society is more tolerant toward religion than religion has been toward society in the past.
We rail against calling a spade a spade but ignore just how awful religion has played a role in dividing us on almost every demographic line. You might not think it's similar, but then again, how the hell do you know? You're a white, male living in Utah. I wonder when the last time your personal rights were denied because of your faith or your color or your gender? Were you ever fired for being a Mormon? Were you ever denied the right to marry your Mormon wife? How many Mormon couples are denied the right to adopt or, at one point, serve in the military?
It's easy to hide under the banner of religion when you're not the one who's being persecuted against. But it always is faith, right? It was faith that denied blacks the Priesthood in the Mormon Church for how many years? It was faith that supported slavery. It was faith that said a woman shouldn't own property or vote. It was faith that taught racism was perfectly okay because, gosh, the Bible says blacks were cursed with the mark of Cain. That's how it works. Then society pushes and religion pushes back - they tell us we're being intolerant to their views without even a hint of irony.
It's easy to cry foul when you're not the one whose life is being disrupted. So what? You don't want two gay men marrying. Good for you - don't gay marry. It's not going to implode the social fabric no more than allowing divorce did. It's not going to make the heavens rain with fire and bring about eternal darkness. It's not going to impact you one bit. But it's easy to deny that right, to say, 'if they want to get married, they can...they just have to marry someone else' when you've got zero skin in the game. And face it, colton, you've got nothing in this argument. It's not impacting your life. It's not you who's being denied anything. It's always easy to dismiss something that isn't important to you and you can claim it is by bringing your faith into it - but I'm tired. I'm tired of religion dictating every goddamn thing in this country. Religion is just half of the equation here. The other is a civil marriage. And no matter what you say, or what you believe, it does not change the fact that two legal, consenting adults are being denied the right to marry in this country. You can compare it to the deplorable actions of incest and any other act, but you and I both know they're not comparable - no more than those who compare Mormonism with a cult. It's ******** and you know it. It's hateful ******** and it shouldn't be tolerated from anyone because I guarantee you, colton, whether you want to believe it or not, there is probably a member or two on this forum who is gay ... and there's probably a whole lot more who know someone who is. And when you compare their desire to marry to the desire of a father wanting to marry his young daughter...well that's just lousy...especially coming from a moderator.
But don't cry foul when someone hints at you being a bigot for thinking that way. I mean, wouldn't you think someone a bigot if they compared Mormonism to Jonestown? I would.
Whole lot of ******** generalizations about people we know nothing about.
well, when yah got nothing in your "cause" ya gotta go real fast to the littany of bully b*whipped whines.
actually, it is interesting to see some of the more thought-out arguments in here, like Sean's.
still doesn't make a persuasive argument to me for letting a marginal set of folks take over the political machinery and undefine an societal institution that has transcended governments of all kinds for thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of years, and hijack the commonly-understood meaning of it for short-term, highly self-centered personal gains.
If gays and other marginal sets of folks take this course, there will come a time, maybe ten or fifty years on in the future, where most folks will be ready to take back the politics and the language, and reaffirm proven institutions that actually do serve the needs of most folks, and especially the needs of kids. It is a mistake to vest government with the power to impose definitions and morals on society, principally because eventually that power will be turned and used against you.
You're missing my point. It's illegal to marry someone of the same gender (at least here in Utah). It's illegal for me to marry my sister. There certainly IS a comparison to be made. Your argument about homosexuality not being a crime is 100% beside the point.
Yeah, whatever.
That's not at all what I was comparing. But if you had actually tried to understand my point, you would have known that.
I find it interesting that the pro gay-marriage crowd wants to move the "red line" to suit their demands but has a "red line" of their own that they think should be drawn in the sand and never crossed because they find the behavior disgusting and deplorable.
Sandy Braille
Banned
"I find it silly" that you guys REALLY think a historic taboo as extreme as INCEST is in line with homosexuality.
Guess what guys? Most of America disagrees with you-- and thank God for it. Bring on the legislation change
BroBAMA!!
Guess what guys? Most of America disagrees with you-- and thank God for it. Bring on the legislation change
BroBAMA!!As recently as 25 years ago homosexuality was viewed in much the same light as incest. The media and progressives have done a masterful job of indoctrinating Americans, mostly the 30 and under crowd, into accepting homosexuality. Homosexuality was, and probably still is in certain states, illegal by proxy via anti-sodomy laws.
Also keep in mind that incest has had its acceptable moments throughout history. Especially among royals to keep their blood lines pure. Egypt, France & England all come to mind... I'm sure there are many more. Just because you find incest deplorable how dare you deny the right of family members to pursue happiness in whatever manner suits them?
Guess what guys? Most of America disagrees with you-- and thank God for it. Bring on the legislation change
I'm not sure most of Americans do disagree, they just feel bullied and don't dare speak out.
elites in all societies generally have lived above the fray so to speak, in regard to both law and morals. They do what they want if they can, and may consider it prudent to not advertise it. Nobody will prosecute them, either, for disregarding law.. . . generally, unless a pretext is needed by someone powerful enough to "challenge the Throne".
I disagree with the sentiment that "most Americans" "don't dare speak out". It's more like the gay agenda pushers have been vocal and most Americans just think it's nuts and don't care to make a fuss.
What the "pushers" should consider is the potential political backlash that may come when most folks realize how nuts things have gotten.
"I find it silly" that you guys REALLY think a historic taboo as extreme as INCEST is in line with homosexuality.
Guess what guys? Most of America disagrees with you-- and thank God for it. Bring on the legislation change
So in our world progress the following taboos are now seen as the norm for many people. (not a complete list)
Adultery, fornication, homosexuality, masturbation, abortion
What's next to be turned into the norm in the name of progress? (again, not a complete list)
incest, necrophilia, bestiality, infanticide, cannibalism, murder
So Sandy... who used to post here under another name. You think it strange to compare one taboo to another taboo and want to separate them by saying one is extreme and the other is not? Both of them have been extreme enough that throughout history people would be killed for either. Saying one is extreme and the other is not is dishonest and an attempt to put distance between them when there is not as much distance as you would like. Does cognitive dissonance mean anything to you?
Sandy Braille
Banned
Yup. masturbation and infanticide are on the same level. Freedom to fornication, mentioned in the Old Testament as something that perhaps wasn't too huge of a deal, is a definite slippery slope to incest
Sandy Braille
Banned
To this day, many countries still have loose incest rules. The references you are making to England and France and Egypt are largely something where the maximum amount of relation is just being cousins. Many religious scriptures allow for this.
However, the marriage of siblings, or parents with children has been much more than a folkway, or a more-- it has been an absolute taboo by the vast majority of society since the beginning of time, largely due to the adverse genetic defects that often results in the matings between very close relatives.
Cry me a river. This has got to be the most petty of political posts I have ever seen.
Sandy Braille
Banned
Keep fighting the fight guys!! Those blasted Liberals are everything that's wrong with modern society!! How DARE they guilt us into granting them marital rights! A man marrying a man is NO different than me killing a baby, or two siblings giving birth to 5 disabled children, or some dude in Norway going on a murderous rampage against tens of teenage students!!
America giving into the homosexuality movement is a slippery slope that will open the doors for freedom to murder and steal!
America giving into the homosexuality movement is a slippery slope that will open the doors for freedom to murder and steal!
Obviously you have no issues with one of them, but it wasn't always this way. Again, in the name of progress we now have been enlightened after thousands of years and it has come to our attention that some of these taboo acts are cool. They have all been taboo, now at this point only some of them are taboo to most people. How long before the rest are okay? I mean, we will continue to progress, become enlightened and realize the error of our ways... right?
yup. spoken like a true zealot for your cause. So what is the distinction between partial birth abortion and "infanticide", or even late term abortion in your mind, and do you really expect us to believe you don't think these things are for the good of the planet and just as harmless and/or beneficial as masturbation?????
Probably some thinking gay folks really wish you'd just shut up and stick to the talking points about reasonable things gays need out of society in terms of job benefits and inheritance law, for example.
Sneakers
Well-Known Member
There are a lot of costs from gay marriage. Drinks alone can be tons of money. Two wedding dresses... Wowzors, that's gonna cost ya. Two tuxes maybe less so but still not cheap. Not to mention renting out a place for reception, a wedding band... There's clearly going to be lots of costs
Oh, you forgot to finish the list, or you sleeping around with any woman that moves, or you being married and sleeping around, or you masturbating to porn, or you sleeping with another man, or you attempting intercourse with a dead body, or you having sexual relations with a sheep. Go ahead and finish the list if you're going to try to mock.