When it comes to gay marriage i am not a huge fan. I think they should be able to live their lives i guess. However, when i get called a homophobic or behind the times when i say i don’t agree with it. or when i am told it is just because of my faith that i believe the way i do. and i start getting persecuted for my beliefs, this is when i say its messed up.
And in a way i feel it’s Being forced on us, though the media and other sources. Marriage to me is a big deal, it’s not just a word to me.. it has special meaning. to me it is the start of the most important unit of time and eternity (a family). And if it gets to a point where gay rights people try to get involved with my faith and telling me i am being morally wrong by not letting them be a part of what i am a part of this is when it will really bother me. Cause then they are starting to take my rights away.
And i fear it would and will get to this point.
You're so worried about the gays telling you what to do when you, and every person who's opposed gay marriage, has been telling 'em for decades and generations what to do.
Don't you find that a bit hypocritical? So, it's okay for you to personally set out an agenda that delegitimizes their standing by refusing them basic treatments under the law that you, as a straight person, receive, and you're upset that they're upset at you?
I don't know if you're LDS, so, you might not be, but this goes to the broader discussion and expands on what I said in my first reply to you...
When Mormons were ousted from Missouri and forced to Utah, and then polygamy was banned by the government, what if they went a step further and entirely banned Mormonism? You could fight the idea that it would be severely unconstitutional, but we have a history of circumventing the constitution when dealing with people's rights (whether they were Catholic rights in the early 1800s, women's rights in the early 1900s, Civil Rights in the 60s and so on) - but there are many of folk, especially a generation ago, who look at Mormonism as a cult and not Christian and therefore, unsavory. I don't believe their logic and I think they're bigots for thinking so. But imagine if they took that hate one step further and the government, in the 1800s, told Utah the only way they could become a state is if they renounced not just polygamy, but Mormonism and banned the religion entirely from being practiced on American soil - or maybe they don't go to that extreme and instead just limit the way it's practiced. Mormons can practice, but they can't hold political office. Mormons can practice, but a marriage sealed within the Temple is absolutely forbidden.
Do you think that would be right?
Under your argument, since this is someone's beliefs - that Mormonism is a cult - we should be welcoming and accepting of those beliefs and forcing Mormon Marriage on the public would absolutely discriminate against the beliefs of these said people.
It sounds extreme, right?
Well that's exactly what has happened in this country - twice, in fact.
Gays, for the longest time, were criminals. The act of being gay was criminalized. They could not, at one point, serve in our military and then, when they were finally allowed to serve, they couldn't serve openly. They had to hide who they were. Many couldn't teach, or if they did teach, had to live a closeted lifestyle, and even today, they can't receive the same benefits you're afforded as a straight, married couple.
We also saw it with interracial marriage. I know a great deal of people don't like this comparison because we abhor the opposition to interracial marriage as backwards and intolerant - but the same arguments being made today toward gays being married were made back then too. You can say, "but this is different..." - it isn't. As much as you want to tell yourself it is, it isn't. Discrimination is discrimination.
The fact remains is that we no longer consider being gay illegal. I think you'd even agree with that advancement, right? I don't know, outside the most intolerable, anyone saying we should jail individuals for being gay. So, if they're not breaking the law - why aren't they afforded the same treatment under the law as you and I would be?
That's the major problem here.
But in the end, we also must concede that marriage is not solely a religious institution. This is a fallacy. It's a fallacy because for a marriage to be legal, it must be legal in the eyes of the law - not in the eyes of the Catholic Church or the Mormon Church. To receive benefits and all the perks that come with marriage, you have to sign a government certificate legalizing your marriage. You can't just go down to the local LDS Temple or Cathedral, have a religious ceremony and live the rest of your life as if you're married. You still have to sign a legal document that says, under the law, you are married. That is government. It is not religion. Being married in the Catholic Church without the acceptance of the government, the signing of that license, is meaningless. It is not the ceremony that counts - it's the papers.
That's why any couple can go down to their local Justice of the Peace and get married in a government building without zero religious influence.
Except, in many areas of this country, gays. They can't do that. They're openly being denied the right to marry - not by a religion - but by a government. Two man can't go down to the Salt Lake County Clerks and ask to be married. They would be refused their marriage licenses.
Now again, put yourself in their shoes. Imagine if the government refused to marry a group like the Mormons because they didn't 'believe' in their lifestyle? Wouldn't you believe that discrimination? Wouldn't you be opposed to it? Wouldn't you fight like hell to change those laws? Absolutely. And you wouldn't be wrong and those fighting to keep those laws wouldn't be right and doing so wouldn't make you intolerant of their feelings because their feelings are inherently intolerant to begin with.
