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John Stockton 3rd best pound for pound.

I was going to be ticked if Iverson had made the top of the list. As it is, the list is pretty good.... except I don't know who Neil Johnston is.
 
ncoloradojazz said:
So who cares. Magic has rings..
Stockton is number 2 in my book behind magic
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The win shares per pound argument is stupid.

The rings argument is equally as stupid.

Magic had the luxury of playing with Kareem and Worthy at the same time. You can take Magic as #1 pg all time but if your going to say it is because of rings Stockton isn't even close to #2.

I'd take Stockton as the #1 pg and I think I would have a fair argument, but there is definitely some homerism involved.

If N.O. Jazz didn't trade away their pick, we took Magic, and somehow Stockton landed in L.A. I think Stockton would be considered #1 all time by most NBA fans(and I would probably think Magic was #1)
 
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Players like Iverson shouldn't be put into stats and measured that way. When telling someone is overrated or not, you have to be specific if you're talking about his talent or his success. If we talk about talent, Iverson is easily one of the best pointguards ever to play the game and so is John. But John turned it into a few meatballs in the plate better than Iverson. NBA should pick players with their successes. I have no problem with that. But saying someone is overrated without being specific leads to the meaning he is overrated in general and that is being perfectly unfair to a player who was always a sight for sore eyes.
 
Pound-for-pound is a colloquail term. We should all be thankful we live in the internet age so we can waste 10 minutes of our lives reading useless calcuations applied to vague references.

Considering his height/weight Iverson along with Stocktoon were the toughest players I've ever seen. But even in his prime I hated his game - mainly because he had way more balls than brains. Go ahead and try to put some numbers to that.
 
colton said:
I was going to be ticked if Iverson had made the top of the list. As it is, the list is pretty good.... except I don't know who Neil Johnston is.
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I googled Neil Johnston. According to Basketball-reference.com he was a 6'8" 210 pound center who played from the 1951-1952 season through the 1958-1959 season. His career bests were 24.4 points, 15.1 rebounds and 3.2 assists. He shot 44.4% for his career. He produced 92 win shares in his 8 year career for an average of 11.5 per season, with 18.3 being his best. In comparison, Karl Malone averaged 12.8 WS over a much longer career with his career high being 16.7. Johnston also had a career average PER of 24.7 with a career high of 25.9 his sophmore year in the league.
 
candrew said:
Pound-for-pound is a colloquail term. We should all be thankful we live in the internet age so we can waste 10 minutes of our lives reading useless calcuations applied to vague references.

Considering his height/weight Iverson along with Stocktoon were the toughest players I've ever seen. But even in his prime I hated his game - mainly because he had way more balls than brains. Go ahead and try to put some numbers to that.
Click to expand...


Isn't pound for pound essentially a boxing argument designed to account for the fact large boxers and small boxers literally can't play the sport against one another? It seems like an awkward port into basketball. Probably a way of saying you think a player is great but don't want to have to enter into a "best PG" debate.
 
heyhey said:
The win shares per pound argument is stupid.

The rings argument is equally as stupid.

Magic had the luxury of playing with Kareem and Worthy at the same time. You can take Magic as #1 pg all time but if your going to say it is because of rings Stockton isn't even close to #2.

I'd take Stockton as the #1 pg and I think I would have a fair argument, but there is definitely some homerism involved.

If N.O. Jazz didn't trade away their pick, we took Magic, and somehow Stockton landed in L.A. I think Stockton would be considered #1 all time by most NBA fans(and I would probably think Magic was #1)
Click to expand...

Ya the ring argument is stupid.. Players aint judge by how they perform in the postseason. Can tell ya from Utah.. Stock was 2nd best pg of all time but there is a big gap between magic and Stockton. Just stop it with your hypothetical what ifs...... I do remember Utah having a good team and mj was playing baseball for two years and the jazz should of won a chip but they underperformed and choked. Facts are
Facts and what ifs are for day dreamers who don't wanna face the facts
 
Would we remember Hakeem differently if Jordan hadn't played baseball/been suspended and the Bulls had rattled off 8 in a row?
 
Facts

Magic led the league in assists 4 times (nonconsecutively) to stocktons record 9 times in a row.(starting in 87 when magic was still playing)
Magics best season 13.06 apg stockton 14.54 apg
Stockton has 7 seasons 1000+ assists Magic not once

Games of 20 assists +
Magic 13
John 34

most assists in a game
Magic 24
John 28

fg% best season Career 3p% best career
Magic .565______.520______.384__.303
John .574_______.515______.462__.384

As you can see not only was John a better passer but a more efficient scorer as well.


stockton holds the record for most career assists(15,806) and steals(3,265)
Magics career totals are assists(10,141) and steals(1724)

best season
Season FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTs
John
1990-91 496 978 .507 58 168 .345 363 434 .836 46 191 237 1164 234 16 298 233 1413
Magic
1986-87 683 1308 .522 8 39 .205 535 631 .848 122 382 504 977 138 36 300 168 1909

Stockton may not be the goat pg but the numbers he put up are difficult to ignore.


P.S. Robert Horry has 7 rings
 
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