14th Tank Platoon

[slc]

So who has officially declared?
Do we need a new thread for that?

 

[Stifle Tower]

Core 4 it does not matter that the early schedule was brutal. What mattered was the record. We were in last place. No hope of the playoffs and the season was already 20 percent done. We should have changed stategy right then and tried to get the first pick.

Moreover we are one of the worst teams. Phily gave away all of it players to ensure it would lose and we are only one game better than orlando. The bucks are the only team that might be worse than us at the beginning of the season and they beat us.

We should have actively tanked after starting the year so bad. Regardless, we absolutely should have tanked once we realized the 4th pick was ours to control. Then when orlando started winning so many late games we would have the third pick.

Yes, it DOES MATTER. YOU play the same schedule regardless of when you play those teams. So if you have a BRUTAL schedule early, then the schedule will be much easier later. Fact is, we had played MORE away games, MORE games against ELITE teams. So the schedule AFTER that means FEWER away games, FEWER games against elite teams. You also have to take into account Trey's insertion into the lineup. As much as Trey has struggled, he and Diante Garrett have been HUGE upgrades over JLIII and Tinsley.

"Tanking" as you are implying is losing on purpose. Sorry, I think 99% of owners, GM's, coaches and players would never consider such a tactic. In fact, I'm also an "old timer" and can say I've only seen ONE such instance (Golden State). Boston is pretty suspicious this season but I have not watched their losses so I can't say for certain. Philly has tanked due to personnel. Milwaukee has been ripped apart by the Sanders mess. Again, look at our personnel compared to the other bottom teams. ONLY way to finish bottom 1-2 would have been to somehow lose/trade 2 of our main players. Would you have supported Lindsey giving up Favors and Burks (or Hayward) for 2nd round picks?

Besides, to assume Wiggins,Parker (if he declares) and Embiid will be superstars is assuming a LOT. Look at the top-3 over the past several drafts. Sure, there have been stars, but there have been outright busts: Derrick Williams, Thabeet, Beasley, Oden, Morrison. There have been also been players who have been decent, but not great: Bargnani, Mayo, Turner, Marvin Williams, Kanter, Favors. Some of these had nearly the same hype as Embiid and Parker.

Conversely, every draft has had players picked outside the top-3 that have become all-stars. Jazz could very well end up with a better player at #5 than the players everyone is saying should go #2 or #3.

 

[The Midnight]

Your chain reaction argument does not hold water. At the time of the orlando debacle we had a worse record than boston. If we lose out boston could not have caught us.

Orlando is not tanking and won games despite the fact that boston was tanking. If orlando did not tank to stop boston they would not have tanked to stop us.

At a minimum we'd own the 4th pick and 99% chance we'd own the third. The one percent being that maybe orlando's owner hates the jazz and loves boston so it acted differently to our losing than it did to bostons.

Have you ever heard of the butterfly effect?


To say that we would be 99% third is just wishful thinking.

 

[oldtimer]

Every team has injuries and losses you have to take them as they come. So after 20 percent of the season is over and your in last place you should change tactics.

Phily was winning too many games so they traded everyone at the deadline for a bag of chips in an effort to lose. You can't tell me that losing was not intentional. Gms and coaches not players should try to lose. Players play to win it is in their dna. Gms and coaches have to be smart enough to lose when necessary. Even golden states playera tried to win. Mark jacskon just benched any player who made more than 1 shot.

Regardless of whether you believe we were to good to compete for the first pick, the fact is we were in forth place with less than 10 gamea remaining and only 2or 3 gamea out of third. We aren't that good. We could have easily grabbed the 3rd pick by losing out all games from orlando on.

If phily hadn't traded everyone and the bucks hadn't emploded who knows.

 

[default]

So who has officially declared?
Do we need a new thread for that?

I think the only big names left to announce are Parker and Randle. All the other top names are entering the draft.

 

[oldtimer]

I saw the stupid movie with the time machine when the guy steped on a butterfly or dragonfly and it changes everything in the future. I also saw the equally stupid movie called butterfly effect.

Your still wrong. It cannot be argued that if utah lost all games from orlando on out they would own the fourth pick at a minimum. No team could have caught them.

I argue the jazz would actually own the third pick because I don't see orlando reacting differently to utah losing than it did to boston losing.

Why do you think orlando would have actually lost the last 3 games they won because utah lost those two? Which outcomes would have been different?

 

[Doublea]

I saw the stupid movie with the time machine when the guy steped on a butterfly or dragonfly and it changes everything in the future. I also saw the equally stupid movie called butterfly effect.

Your still wrong. It cannot be argued that if utah lost all games from orlando on out they would own the fourth pick at a minimum. No team could have caught them.

I argue the jazz would actually own the third pick because I don't see orlando reacting differently to utah losing than it did to boston losing.

Why do you think orlando would have actually lost the last 3 games they won because utah lost those two? Which outcomes would have been different?

Man you're such a selfish fan.

 

[The Midnight]

I saw the stupid movie with the time machine when the guy steped on a butterfly or dragonfly and it changes everything in the future. I also saw the equally stupid movie called butterfly effect.

Your still wrong. It cannot be argued that if utah lost all games from orlando on out they would own the fourth pick at a minimum. No team could have caught them.

I argue the jazz would actually own the third pick because I don't see orlando reacting differently to utah losing than it did to boston losing.

Why do you think orlando would have actually lost the last 3 games they won because utah lost those two? Which outcomes would have been different?

Read this:

The butterfly effect is the sensitive dependency on initial conditions in which a small change at one place in a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state. The name of the effect, coined by Edward Lorenz, is derived from the theoretical example of a hurricane's formation being contingent on whether or not a distant butterfly had flapped its wings several weeks earlier.

If a butterfly flapping its wings can cause a hurricane, is it impossible to think that a win in Utah wouldn't cause them to "tank harder" than it would have otherwise?

 

[fishonjazz]

So after 20 percent of the season is over and your in last place you should change tactics.

This.

Maybe the jazz didnt think they would have had a chance at top 3 before the season began but after the horrible start they should have changed tactics and made the roster even worse and held out players longer than necessary and for weak *** reasons. (Vertigo, a cold, etc)

 

[Stifle Tower]

Phily was winning too many games so they traded everyone at the deadline for a bag of chips in an effort to lose. You can't tell me that losing was not intentional. Gms and coaches not players should try to lose. Players play to win it is in their dna. Gms and coaches have to be smart enough to lose when necessary. Even golden states playera tried to win. Mark jacskon just benched any player who made more than 1 shot.

Regardless of whether you believe we were to good to compete for the first pick, the fact is we were in forth place with less than 10 gamea remaining and only 2or 3 gamea out of third. We aren't that good. We could have easily grabbed the 3rd pick by losing out all games from orlando on.

If phily hadn't traded everyone and the bucks hadn't emploded who knows.

Absolutely NOT true about GS. I watched the last 20 games. Players were intentionally throwing the ball away and taking wild shots. And the GS players and Mark Jackson were dancing and laughing on the sideline.

But you are contradicting yourself. If players and coaches don't lose, then what could Lindsey have done the last 2 weeks or month to ensure a 4th or 3rd place finish? Waive Hayward? Look up Gillooly to see if he would take out Favors' knee?

You haven't made one valid suggestion of how Lindsey could have ensured the Jazz finish with a bottom-3 record. Short of sticking with JLIII and Tinsley and somehow convincing Burke to sit out the season - or TELLING Ty to INTENTIONALLY lose the last 10 games. And how do you think THAT would go over in the commissioner's office. I'm sure there would be serious sanctions levied against Utah.

 

[Stifle Tower]

This.

Maybe the jazz didnt think they would have had a chance at top 3 before the season began but after the horrible start they should have changed tactics and made the roster even worse and held out players longer than necessary and for weak *** reasons. (Vertigo, a cold, etc)

So the Jazz play Clark, Thomas, Rush, Biedrins and JLIII over Kanter, Favors, Hayward, Burke and Burks. Yep, and then guys like you would be screaming that the future is in jeopardy because the youngsters can't develop unless they get playing time.

 

[Doublea]

GS loses, I thought Curry was going to have another game winner. Even if they don't fall out of the playoffs we can at least hope the pick goes a few spots lower.