2020 Presidential Debates


Scat

Well-Known Member
This changes everything. Let's disregard what all top US Intelligence says about the Proud Boys because they have some nonwhite people in their organization.
I'm not disregarding anything. I was just surprised that group which are referred to as white supremacists have a person of color as their leader. Can you imagine the KKK having a black Grand Dragon?
 

zyzz

Well-Known Member
I'm not disregarding anything. I was just surprised that group which are referred to as white supremacists have a person of color as their leader. Can you imagine the KKK having a black Grand Dragon?
Sorry didn't mean to come across as hostile, but I just have no tolerance or sympathy for these kinds of groups. I just don't think they deserve any benefit of the doubt.
 

The Thriller

Well-Known Member
It’s been funny today to hear people surprised by Trump’s antics. It’s like they’ve been living in a cave for 5 years and have missed every single press conference he’s ever given.
 

fishonjazz

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I'm not disregarding anything. I was just surprised that group which are referred to as white supremacists have a person of color as their leader. Can you imagine the KKK having a black Grand Dragon?
You should check out the clip from the chapelle show regarding this. Hilarious.

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Thee Idiotic Minivan K

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Let me also just clarify, he’s had to be a bully after all the stupid things he’s said, after being caught in lies and in defense of how poorly he’s handled the the virus, calling fallen military losers, oh and my personal favorite. The CDC is experimenting with injecting disinfect into our bodies to combat the virus. I could go on and on.
 

Gameface

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I haven't paid much attention to the Proud Boy movement (dumb name by the way) so did a little reading. The little that I did know about them I was surprised to learn that the Proud Boys president is a person named Enrique Tarrio . He is Afro-Cuban.



I don't think it is common for white supremacists to put people of color in positions of power within their own organizations. Tarrio is also the Florida director of Latinos for Trump.
The Proud Boys describe themselves as "western chauvinists" which they claim means that they are not white supremacists, but that they believe in the supremacy of the "western civilization" and the world that the western civilization has created (culture, customs, political and economic systems).

So yeah, you can be a Proud Boy and not be white, but you can't value your non-white (non-western) heritage.

I'm gonna go ahead and define that as a type of White Supremacy.
 

Gameface

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The Proud Boys describe themselves as "western chauvinists" which they claim means that they are not white supremacists, but that they believe in the supremacy of the "western civilization" and the world that the western civilization has created (culture, customs, political and economic systems).

So yeah, you can be a Proud Boy and not be white, but you can't value your non-white (non-western) heritage.

I'm gonna go ahead and define that as a type of White Supremacy.
Let me also say, if you're a white supremacist and are having a hard time finding a local chapter of the KKK or neo-NAZIs you'll feel pretty comfortable at the next Proud Boys get together.

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lauriandres

Well-Known Member
The Proud Boys describe themselves as "western chauvinists" which they claim means that they are not white supremacists, but that they believe in the supremacy of the "western civilization" and the world that the western civilization has created (culture, customs, political and economic systems).
Not that other heritages are bad, but hasn't history shown us, that in a grand scheme of things western heritage has been much more powerful and/or successful during the last 500 years, than asian, african or south american systems? Otherwise there would similar countries like Japan, Taiwan, Switzerland or Sweden also in South america and Africa and even the G8 group might have a different countries?
IMHO the best antidote against Proud boys and similar groups are not the counter-protesting groups, but successful companies and even better - successful countries? If Taiwan or Japan or Thailand can be successful, then i see no excuse for an African or South american country to be as good as those countries. I guess, that based purely on valuable natural resources - all the larger South American and African countries are better than Japan and Taiwan and maybe even Canada and Italy? Purely resource wise there is IMHO no excuse, that a la Nigeria is in a poorer shape, than Italy, Canada or even Norway?
 

Gameface

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Not that other heritages are bad, but hasn't history shown us, that in a grand scheme of things western heritage has been much more powerful and/or successful during the last 500 years, than asian, african or south american systems? Otherwise there would similar countries like Japan, Taiwan, Switzerland or Sweden also in South america and Africa and even the G8 group might have a different countries?
IMHO the best antidote against Proud boys and similar groups are not the counter-protesting groups, but successful companies and even better - successful countries? If Taiwan or Japan or Thailand can be successful, then i see no excuse for an African or South american country to be as good as those countries. I guess, that based purely on valuable natural resources - all the larger South American and African countries are better than Japan and Taiwan and maybe even Canada and Italy? Purely resource wise there is IMHO no excuse, that a la Nigeria is in a poorer shape, than Italy, Canada or even Norway?
It's super more complicated than that. That's all I can say right now because I can't, I'm not capable or qualified, to fully explore the world history that has landed us where we are right now.

But If I'm reading you right, you're basically saying that you agree in principle with the premise of the Proud Boys, that western civilization is superior.

Let's be clear that due to the superiority of western civilization they believe that laws and practices that eliminate the influence of non-western civilization on their superior western civilization are necessary.
 

lauriandres

Well-Known Member
But If I'm reading you right, you're basically saying that you agree in principle with the premise of the Proud Boys, that western civilization is superior.
Yes i agree, that western civilization is currently and historically during the last 500 years superior in the same sense as Magnus Carlsen is more superior in chess than Maurice Ashley :) (who is IMHO one of the best chess commentators and has had some good games against really good players. Too bad he does not have as many instructive Youtube videos as Yasser Seirawan). Because, well otherwise some African country would be as dominant as are the G7/G8 countries?

However, that does not mean, that i am a fan of Proud Boys or similar groups current public behaviour, no matter what race they are.
 

Gameface

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Let me just say that I've always believed in the "community of ideas" where concepts exist on their own and either survive or fail based on their val
Yes i agree, that western civilization is currently and historically during the last 500 years superior in the same sense as Magnus Carlsen is more superior in chess than Maurice Ashley :) (who is IMHO one of the best chess commentators and has had some good games against really good players. Too bad he does not have as many instructive Youtube videos as Yasser Seirawan). Because, well otherwise some African country would be as dominant as are the G7/G8 countries?

However, that does not mean, that i am a fan of Proud Boys or similar groups current public behaviour, no matter what race they are.
Well they claim they aren't even talking about race. They are talking about western civilization and protecting it against non western civilization, and they don't just mean from military attacks, they mean culturally and ideologically.
 

lauriandres

Well-Known Member
Let me just say that I've always believed in the "community of ideas" where concepts exist on their own and either survive or fail based on their val

Well they claim they aren't even talking about race. They are talking about western civilization and protecting it against non western civilization, and they don't just mean from military attacks, they mean culturally and ideologically.
To clarify my thoughts - as i have seen the Proud Boys only on Google photo search i would not take them anyway seriously at all. I.e whatever they claim - they are not doing it in a way that attracts somebody like me to their group. IMHO if you you want to express your thoughts-ideas even if they are not politically correct - at least present them in a marketable way and try to be a gentleman and polite while doing that and let the voters decide whether your ideas qualify or not. I seriously doubt that all those in the photos, when asked, would even know where the different "bad" countries all over the world are located and what are the capitals etc etc. Or worst case - they do not even know Ohm's or Newton laws.
 

Jazz4ever

Well-Known Member
Misremembering numbers is not the same as being incoherent, and when have we required drug tests of any Presidential debater? Did Trump have a drug test and make it public? If not, why aren't you saying this about Trump?
Trump requested a drug test for both and Biden declined. Biden was also likely wearing a portable IV to help him keep standing.
 

One Brow

Well-Known Member
Trump requested a drug test for both and Biden declined. Biden was also likely wearing a portable IV to help him keep standing.
'Trump threw out some wild theory' =/= "likely".

You do get that Trump is only trying to create doubt and sow chaos, right?
 
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