Fair enough, I didn't even bother to look at what the right numbers are, could you perhaps share a more complete breakdown there?
2020 Presidential election
- Thread starter gandalfe
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Fair enough, I didn't even bother to look at what the right numbers are, could you perhaps share a more complete breakdown there?
Zombie
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D
Deleted member 365
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they’ll turn to Trump. That’s who.
Bernie isn’t going to win. His nomination will be forfeiting the chances of retaking the White House, the Senate, and House.
D
Deleted member 365
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BTW, I have no love for Wall Street nor do I think Tom Perez is some genius. But I do know where the roads of populism lead us. Parties were set up to vet candidates and prevent masses of dumb angry people from nominating a demagogue. The GOP laid down and gave us trump in 2016. Anyone who steps out of line is flamed as a RINO. Are we seeing the same thing happening to the Democratic Party in 2020? Will Mayor Pete in a year be labeled a DINO? What about Klobuchar? Will Warren be called “too conservative” by the Bernie Bros a year from now? Will Democrats he expected to tolerate impeachable offenses from a president or else risk being ostracized politically?
I think we’re witnessing populist candidates from both the right and left. We’re in dangerous territory.
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So I'm pretty dang far left (Bernie is just far enough left to bring me in to participate past voting). And I'd like to think I've avoided insulting too many of the Democratic candidates, I can usually disagree with folks on policy without resorting to insults (I've made exceptions for Bloomberg and Tulsi). And I guess I'm just not sure where all the Bernie dislike is coming from from the center of the party? Bernie himself is pretty clearly not similar to Trump in terms of presentation. Like what impeachable offenses are you worried about from Bernie here?
D
Deleted member 365
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The issue isn’t to speculate on potential impeachable offenses committed by Sanders. The issue is a party being overrun by populists. Populists who worship a cult of personality (Sanders) and who’ll place the heads of dissenters on a pike. Thus, enabling a demagogue.
Have you not seen this with Trump and the Republican Party? Don’t you see the similarities of the 2016 Republican Party takeover by trump and the 2020 takeover of the Democratic Party by Sanders?
For those who don’t see the similarities between Trump Trolls and Bernie Bros, please open your eyes.
Zombie
Well-Known Member
Populism is not an inherently bad or dangerous thing. I can be certainly, but the real danger lays in what that populism is directed toward. In Trump's case it was directed toward minority ethnic and religious groups, with Bernie its directed at corporations and billionaires. Let's not pretend it's the same thing. At this point Bernie is about as much a populist as FDR was, we'll likely see if he can govern as well.
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D
Deleted member 365
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I think we’re playing with Fire. The funny thing with populism is that once started, it’s impossible to keep it directed at its intended targets. Angry young people are almost impossible to keep focused. Trump tapped into racism. Bernie is tapping into (income inequality anger?). But the anger once unleashed will be nearly impossible to direct or control. As we see on a daily basis with the Bernie Bros. Perhaps Bernie’s populist fire will be extinguished quickly after he loses 40 states and we lose the House? Oh and more judges. Soooooo many more judges. Ruth will be gone soon so rest assured that Bernie guarantees Trump at least 3 Supreme Court picks.
Can you name a single left wing revolution in the past 100 years that wasn’t initially aimed at corporations and billionaires?
So populism... Is pretty clearly not strictly a bad thing, in fact it's pretty much the only response to increasing inequality. Sometimes it comes from a good place and sometimes it doesn't (FDR v Trump). Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't (FDR v McGovern).
Cults of personality are generally bad in politics, I just don't see that to the extent you do with Bernie (I see folks every bit as fired up about most of the other candidates - sorry Amy K, not sorry Bloomberg). Hell, Obama had a far larger 'cult' of personality than Bernie does now by my estimation. I know personally I wouldn't really care if he dropped out tomorrow if that meant someone else would/could pick up similar ideals (Warren is close enough that I imagine she would).
Saying open your eyes and the like repeatedly doesn't help me here.
As long as you take your sleepy self in to vote in November
I vote by mail, so I think I can manage to open an eye for long enough in both March and November.