2020 Presidential election

FAILED STATE

Well-Known Member
There is zero chance of a peaceful transfer of power... If Trump does win I think we have crazy violent protesting... The End Is Near!
As I’ve been saying for months now: this is already a Failed State.

There’s a chance for a sort of renewal (of indeterminate length and energy) in an election. But it’s hard to believe in the robustness of any renewal with this one.

That said, I choose Biden 10 out of 10 times and hope to parlay that victory into momentum in the next couple of elections.

But, frrrreal, if we **** the bed or have mixed results in 2020, 2022, and/or 2024, then y’all better start worrying your ****ing asses off
 

Red

Well-Known Member
There is zero chance of a peaceful transfer of power... If Trump does win I think we have crazy violent protesting... The End Is Near!
If it’s close, and the mail vote count drags on, I think the possibilities outlined in The Atlantic article are a virtual certainty. Hard to see this “ending” well at all.

As I’ve been saying for months now: this is already a Failed State.
Yep, it really does look that way. I long ago grew tired of the old saw “it can’t happen here”.
 

Red

Well-Known Member
I must admit it’s demoralizing, based on statements by Republican officials, in The Atlantic piece, and based on Trump’s own words, in recent days, that he is going to try one or more methods of invalidating the fundamental institution of our democracy(even if it is an oligarchy), voting. Where we the people choose our leaders. Assuming ( for the sake of argument) the 2020 election ends up before the Supreme Court, one would hope that body would not put their seal of approval on ending what we started in 1787.....

 

Gameface

Fight Voter Suppression!
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
I must admit it’s demoralizing, based on statements by Republican officials, in The Atlantic piece, and based on Trump’s own words, in recent days, that he is going to try one or more methods of invalidating the fundamental institution of our democracy(even if it is an oligarchy), voting. Where we the people choose our leaders. Assuming ( for the sake of argument) the 2020 election ends up before the Supreme Court, one would hope that body would not put their seal of approval on ending what we started in 1787.....

If Trump wins in a contested election where many votes are invalidated and there is not pushback by his party I will leave the U.S.. I will do so as quickly as I am able.

If he wins he wins. But if he cheats and is supported in that, or if he contests the results and gets support to deny the results and is successful based on the dismissal of votes, I will leave. There are a lot of decent countries in the world. One of them is to our north, others are a short hop across the pond. I'm a proud American and I will leave with a heavy heart, but I will leave.
 
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Jazz4ever

Well-Known Member
If Trump wins in a contested election where many votes are invalidated and there is not pushback by his party I will leave the U.S.. I will do so as quickly as I am able.

If he wins he wins. But if he cheats and is supported in that, or if he contests the results and gets support to deny the results and is successful based on the dismissal of votes, I will leave. There are a lot of decent countries in the world. One of them is to our north, others are a short hop across the pond. I'm a proud American and I will leave with a heavy heart, but I will leave.
Right......everyone said they were moving to Canada when he won in 2016 and it never happened. "Not my president". Remember?
 

fishonjazz

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2019 Award Winner
Right......everyone said they were moving to Canada when he won in 2016 and it never happened. "Not my president". Remember?
You think him winning legitimately is the same as him winning by cheating? Or to you think he also cheated last time?

Also, do you think that literally no one left the country after trump won last time? Gameface is one person, not "everyone" btw.

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Gameface

Fight Voter Suppression!
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
Right......everyone said they were moving to Canada when he won in 2016 and it never happened. "Not my president". Remember?
I will not live in a country where the President gains power by blatantly undermining the election process. Especially if his party supports him in that effort.

If Trump legit gets more votes, fine. If he throws millions of votes away and people are cool with that, not fine.

Honestly, moving to Canada, the UK, Ireland or Scotland is just barely more dramatic than moving from Utah to Maine. It's not some crazy thing that is so unthinkable. A lot of people buy into the idea that Murica is just so amazing and everywhere else is just pure trash when that's not true. Plenty of awesome western style democracies to choose from, many of which I wouldn't even have to learn a new language to live in.
 

Jazz4ever

Well-Known Member
You think him winning legitimately is the same as him winning by cheating? Or to you think he also cheated last time?

Also, do you think that literally no one left the country after trump won last time? Gameface is one person, not "everyone" btw.

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No he's not going to cheat, my bad, but since Gameface likely believes he should have been impeached and the system failed there, I'm not sure what difference it makes. Sounds like he just wants attention.

For kicks and giggles here are 20 celebrities who said they would leave last election, only one did to my knowledge (Madonna). :D

 

Gameface

Fight Voter Suppression!
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
No he's not going to cheat, my bad, but since Gameface likely believes he should have been impeached and the system failed there, I'm not sure what difference it makes. Sounds like he just wants attention.

For kicks and giggles here are 20 celebrities who said they would leave last election, only one did to my knowledge (Madonna). :D

Don't ****ing guess at what I think. I'm right here. Just ask.
 

fishonjazz

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Contributor
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
No he's not going to cheat, my bad, but since Gameface likely believes he should have been impeached and the system failed there, I'm not sure what difference it makes. Sounds like he just wants attention.

For kicks and giggles here are 20 celebrities who said they would leave last election, only one did to my knowledge (Madonna). :D

Why do you think there is no difference in the past vs if trump and his party find a way to make millions of votes not count?


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fishonjazz

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Contributor
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
I will not live in a country where the President gains power by blatantly undermining the election process. Especially if his party supports him in that effort.

If Trump legit gets more votes, fine. If he throws millions of votes away and people are cool with that, not fine.

Honestly, moving to Canada, the UK, Ireland or Scotland is just barely more dramatic than moving from Utah to Maine. It's not some crazy thing that is so unthinkable. A lot of people buy into the idea that Murica is just so amazing and everywhere else is just pure trash when that's not true. Plenty of awesome western style democracies to choose from, many of which I wouldn't even have to learn a new language to live in.
I would hope that everyone would want to move if the scenario you laid out actually took place. Hopefully none of us would be cool with that happening.


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fishonjazz

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Contributor
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
I will not live in a country where the President gains power by blatantly undermining the election process. Especially if his party supports him in that effort.

If Trump legit gets more votes, fine. If he throws millions of votes away and people are cool with that, not fine.

Honestly, moving to Canada, the UK, Ireland or Scotland is just barely more dramatic than moving from Utah to Maine. It's not some crazy thing that is so unthinkable. A lot of people buy into the idea that Murica is just so amazing and everywhere else is just pure trash when that's not true. Plenty of awesome western style democracies to choose from, many of which I wouldn't even have to learn a new language to live in.
One problem with your plan...... Canada might keep their borders closed to Americans.


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latin jazz

Well-Known Member
I will not live in a country where the President gains power by blatantly undermining the election process. Especially if his party supports him in that effort.

If Trump legit gets more votes, fine. If he throws millions of votes away and people are cool with that, not fine.

Honestly, moving to Canada, the UK, Ireland or Scotland is just barely more dramatic than moving from Utah to Maine. It's not some crazy thing that is so unthinkable. A lot of people buy into the idea that Murica is just so amazing and everywhere else is just pure trash when that's not true. Plenty of awesome western style democracies to choose from, many of which I wouldn't even have to learn a new language to live in.
One problem with your plan...... Canada might keep their borders closed to Americans.


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Europe as well.

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@Gameface you are ****ed :D . You can always come to Mexico. I'll invite you a beer and some churros if you visit Mexico City
 

lauriandres

Well-Known Member
One problem with your plan...... Canada might keep their borders closed to Americans.


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Maybe mods can create a separate topic.
However:
1. I am pretty sure, that if you have proper CMR document, then for a US citizen it is not a problem to go to Canada? Even in Europe it was perfectly OK to go from Estonia to Portugal and back by car if you had proper documentation a la transporting one pack of chewing gum during march, april and may. Even now if you visit most of the Europe you have to stay 14 day quarantine; however, if you work in transport business then it is not needed. At least in EU everybody can establish a transport company (business entity) (basically zero fees ) and everyone can transport goods.
2. Are you sure the borders are closed for somebody who accepts to stay 14 days in designated quarantine location in Canada and has a legit reason to be there?
For example, here are the rules about Estonia: https://vm.ee/en/information-countries-and-self-isolation-requirements-passengers
Week or two ago even an US soldier either came with the virus or got it somehow in Estonian military base during the NATO mission. No big fuss about that. Of course, it is better to have an Abrams unit where all the members have the virus with minimal side defects than Soviet troops.
3. I have always wondered why the population size difference is huge in USA vs Canada. From a northern european perspective - If you have above average skills - isn't it possible to get a high wage job in Canada with much lower living expenses compared to NYC, LA, Florida or San Fransisco. Minus all the more or less exaggarated problems the USA has?
 
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