2020 Presidential election

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by gandalfe, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. infection

    infection Well-Known Member Staff Member 2018 Award Winner

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    Oh, and stop writing blank checks to universities in the form of student loans. It’s funny that they thought they’d help disadvantaged people by allowing them to get loans they can’t pay back.

    Also, stop funding graduate medical education.
     
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  2. Harambe

    Harambe Well-Known Member Contributor

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    But regulation is anti-American...
     
  3. infection

    infection Well-Known Member Staff Member 2018 Award Winner

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    It’s the opposite, though. It’s not about more regulation — it’s about not getting involved. Getting involved (i.e. regulation) is precisely why we’re in this mess.
     
  4. NPC D4617

    NPC D4617 Well-Known Member

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    Ya, as it turns there isnt much of a market for gender studies and liberal arts. Kind of hard to pay back loans when you cant make a decent income off your "education"
     
  5. infection

    infection Well-Known Member Staff Member 2018 Award Winner

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    You can if you eventually produce enough of those people that you’ve gotta lobby for a solution.

    The woman who swallowed a fly.
     
  6. NPC D4617

    NPC D4617 Well-Known Member

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    You are so delusional.

    "Honestly, I’d be surprised to see trump on the ballot in 2020."

    Lmao. Hilarious.

    I seem to remember everyone saying he couldnt win last time too. You, the polls, everyone on tv, etc... You all were wrong then. Pretty arrogant to think he cant win again, let alone believe he wont even be on the ballot.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
  7. Wes Mantooth

    Wes Mantooth Well-Known Member

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    I teach 9th grade at-risk kids and our district shoves college down the kids’ throats. It’s pathetic. The town is 95% Hispanic, poor, and the kids are far better off learning life/character skills and developing actual trade skills. Become an electrician, mechanic, plumber, welder, etc. There’s a growing need for such jobs. I tell my kids, “The district is dumb. If you want to go to college and are prepared, do it. On average, you’ll make more money than someone who didn’t go to college. But that doesn’t mean it’s right for you or that you can’t make good money or be happy not going to college. If you’d rather do a trade, do that. Work hard in high school so you have options and then make an informed decision that’s best for you, not these ******* administrators who just care about manipulating data.”
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
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  8. infection

    infection Well-Known Member Staff Member 2018 Award Winner

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    It’d also be helpful if we taught people the difference between correlation and causation. Of course, to teach that would require understanding it. There are certainly more lucrative pathways that require college, but that’s not what the majority of people completing college are doing. People ambitious enough to stick through college are more ambitious in other avenues of life and thus make more money. That’s one variable that accounts for at least a large part of the variance. However, as college has been more and more sold as a cultural expectation, even those less ambitious are sticking through, especially when it’s much easier now to just take out loans and not have to work as hard, so the numbers saying it’s an advantage are going to reduce.

    My generation was always told “go get a college degree,” as if there was some pot of gold at the end of that rainbow, but we never clarified why people attending college made more money. Part of it is correlation, but the other part is that college put people on paths to specific careers. Now it’s about “learning” with the expectation that employability comes after all of said learning.
     
  9. Wes Mantooth

    Wes Mantooth Well-Known Member

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    No doubt. I teach a special class for College Prep/Honors kids and I just started them on their career research papers. I know, I know...but I talk about certain jobs about which they ask me and how little they pay and why and so forth.

    One girl wants to be a Cultural Anthropologist. She’s a frosh and scored 1,040 on her psat’s in the fall. Great freakin’ girl.
     
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  10. infection

    infection Well-Known Member Staff Member 2018 Award Winner

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    A couple more thoughts:

    I think it’s interesting that we’ve oversold this so much that many people view it as a life goal. People feel guilty or feel like they’ve sold themselves short if they didn’t go to/complete college, and people return after many years to finally check that box. Now, I think people should have whatever personal goals they want and if this is their goal, then more power to them. But this system has been set up where they put up all these hoops and say “jump, MFer,” and then people feel their life purpose has been compromised because they didn’t meet that particular challenge, never mind all the other countless things they can do in life that could have more impact and personal meaning, not to mention being a lot less expensive.

    On the other hand, though, you’ve got a lot of people who complain about higher education in a way that just seems like they’re trying to rationalize their feelings of guilt for not going to/completing college. So they make some poor arguments against it. I think if people are avoiding college because they’re lazy or not wanting to work, that they’re not a good example when talking about how you can be successful without college.
     
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  11. Harambe

    Harambe Well-Known Member Contributor

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    What caused regulation?
     
  12. infection

    infection Well-Known Member Staff Member 2018 Award Winner

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    The belief that they were making things better by guaranteeing students to be able to take out enough money in loans to pay the cost of attendance. Tuition skyrocketed as they wrote blank checks to the universities.

    Now it’s “OMG this didn’t work and we need to do something!!!!1”
     
  13. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

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    How many 16-year-old kids know exactly what they want to do for the next 40 years of their life? I agree that we should allow for some job skills training, but not at the expense of general education skills.
     
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  14. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

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    College graduates, even with degrees in liberal arts and gender studies, still make higher lifetime incomes than those with no college.
     
  15. infection

    infection Well-Known Member Staff Member 2018 Award Winner

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    How many 18 year olds do? Hell, people are going to college for things they have no idea if they want to do them — at least in this scenario they’re employable after high school.
    Correlation or causation?
     
  16. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

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    An 18-year-old with good general skill can still find apprenticeships and training programs.

    Both. Having the college degree opens doors.
     
  17. infection

    infection Well-Known Member Staff Member 2018 Award Winner

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    Absolutely. But what we’re talking about is whether or not it’s more efficient to fund college, or to beef up high school — where do you get more bang for your buck? For one usually advancing progressive notions, you seem tied to traditional perspectives.
     
  18. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

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    It's interesting to see a preference for general education classes (by which I mean English/literature, math, science, civics, history, etc.) being described non-progressive. I think that may be the wrong axis to describe it.

    Perhaps I was not clear above, but I have no problem with offering more job-specific curricula in high school, as long as the gerneral classes do not suffer as a result. However, in one of the examples you mention, I think a radiation tech who has not mastered English, math through college algebra, and basic biology and chemistry courses would be in a poor job position compared to a radiation tech who had taken the general education classes in high school, and then went on to certification classes. I don't know as much about welding, but would guess some basic knowledge of English, math, and the appropriate sciences would help there as well.

    As fast as the world is changing, I think the best training we can offer in public schools is the basic skills that will give a foundation for student to lay additional training on top of, as opposed to narrowly constricted training in a couple of job skills.
     
  19. Harambe

    Harambe Well-Known Member Contributor

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    Try starting with the belief that there was a problem. Which there was and is. A problem that wasn't being even identified, let alone solved by letting the market correct itself.

    I'm not saying it was the best thought out idea, but failing to acknowledge that they acted on a existing problem that wasn't getting fixed is asking for further failure.
     
  20. Stoked

    Stoked Well-Known Member Contributor 2018 Award Winner

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    Heard Klobuchar did herself good at a town hall recently. She wasn’t afraid to say no and not buy into pipe dreams.

    She’ll get a closer look from me
     

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