2020 Presidential election

[JazzyFresh]

It takes the world a day to revolve on its axis once. A year to revolve around the sun. How many times, in just one day, does the world revolve around you?

Every second that it's not revolving around my family.

 

[fishonjazz]

I'm conflicted on this. I get the idea of doing away with the electoral college, it is logically sound but I also don't like the idea of 2 or 3 cities that are completely disconnected from 99% of the rest of the country basically running the country. It's a tough one.

Those 2 or 3 cities are diverse though. The people in those 2 or 3 cities don't all think exactly the same and also wouldn't all vote exactly the same.

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[Beer]

Those 2 or 3 cities are diverse though. The people in those 2 or 3 cities don't all think exactly the same and also wouldn't all vote exactly the same.

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I'm not so sure that's true.

NYC and LA are about the same politically. Throw in the San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose area. It's the same too. Not sure where Chicago stands but I'd assume it's closer to NYC than it is Phoenix in terms of politics. So basically the top 4 biggest cities/areas are all the same. It makes it really tough to overcome.

Look at this graph. Only like 10% of the cities are conservative, and they are all on the very small end population wise.

Chart of the Week: The most liberal and conservative big cities

Big cities in the U.S. tend toward the liberal side of the political spectrum, even when they're within conservative states (residents of Austin sometimes

www.pewresearch.org

I'm not even a conservative but there has to be some balance or you get the wackadoo left running amok. If it were completely slanted right you'd get the same wackadoo right policies. I don't know what the answer is but I do know letting NYC, LA and San Fran run the country is not a good idea.

 

[gandalfe]

I'm not so sure that's true.

NYC and LA are about the same politically. Throw in the San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose area. It's the same too. Not sure where Chicago stands but I'd assume it's closer to NYC than it is Phoenix in terms of politics. So basically the top 4 biggest cities/areas are all the same. It makes it really tough to overcome.

Look at this graph. Only like 10% of the cities are conservative, and they are all on the very small end population wise.

Chart of the Week: The most liberal and conservative big cities

Big cities in the U.S. tend toward the liberal side of the political spectrum, even when they're within conservative states (residents of Austin sometimes

www.pewresearch.org

I'm not even a conservative but there has to be some balance or you get the wackadoo left running amok. If it were completely slanted right you'd get the same wackadoo right policies. I don't know what the answer is but I do know letting NYC, LA and San Fran run the country is not a good idea.

But you're missing the trees for the forest here. As mentioned above, the entire city of NYC doesn't all vote the same, or San Fran or Chicago or even Provo. The electoral college, as currently implemented in most states (winner take all) does assume that, and it's wrong. Maybe if more states followed the Maine example, and split it, it would be different. A city is not a monolithic entity, any more than a neighborhood or a state or the entire country.

 

[fishonjazz]

I'm not so sure that's true.

NYC and LA are about the same politically. Throw in the San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose area. It's the same too. Not sure where Chicago stands but I'd assume it's closer to NYC than it is Phoenix in terms of politics. So basically the top 4 biggest cities/areas are all the same. It makes it really tough to overcome.

Look at this graph. Only like 10% of the cities are conservative, and they are all on the very small end population wise.

Chart of the Week: The most liberal and conservative big cities

Big cities in the U.S. tend toward the liberal side of the political spectrum, even when they're within conservative states (residents of Austin sometimes

www.pewresearch.org

I'm not even a conservative but there has to be some balance or you get the wackadoo left running amok. If it were completely slanted right you'd get the same wackadoo right policies. I don't know what the answer is but I do know letting NYC, LA and San Fran run the country is not a good idea.

Thing is that you have no way to know if this is true. Conservatives in those cities simply don't vote a lot of time cause their vote doesn't matter.
Just like I had never voted before 2016 cause my vote doesn't matter here in Utah.

If the electoral college were eliminated then I think you would discover that there are a lot more conservatives on california than you think there are.

Also, let's say you are correct about there being only 10%. Right now it's basically as if there are zero conservatives based on how the electoral college works. At least the popular vote would capture those 10% of votes for the conservatives.

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[Jazz4ever]

Thing is that you have no way to know if this is true. Conservatives in those cities simply don't vote a lot of time cause their vote doesn't matter.
Just like I had never voted before 2016 cause my vote doesn't matter here in Utah.

If the electoral college were eliminated then I think you would discover that there are a lot more conservatives on california than you think there are.

Also, let's say you are correct about there being only 10%. Right now it's basically as if there are zero conservatives based on how the electoral college works. At least the popular vote would capture those 10% of votes for the conservatives.

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Agree with you on this. Plus you would see candidates campaigning there and showing a larger interest in the state's issues. The votes would follow.
It would clearly help the Republican party more. The population of NY and California is almost 60 million.

 

[Eminence]

I'm actually pretty fine with the electoral college, I see it as Affirmative Action for the rural minority.

The Senate though...

 

[One Brow]

I've heard it all before and it's a worthless conversation. If you want two packed dirty cities to control the entire election that's on you. Trump absolutely destroyed Hillary in counties yet take away two citie and Trump destroyed the popular vote too.

"Counties", as an aggregate, are not people. The voters in those cities are.

 

[JazzyFresh]

This is becoming more and more frequent from the left and they aren't even hiding it anymore. In this very forum I've been threatened to be killed by some tattle tale wannabe terrorist @Gameface. @The Thriller has been openly advocating violence for years. I can honestly say that ill probably be put in an internment camp if Biden wins.



Read the comments and how evil a good chunk of Democrats are. This is frightening. @Eenie-Meenie this is why we are so pro gun. Your party is rather threatening. All because you lost an election. Nothing more

 

[One Brow]

I hate this conversation because it's simply common sense to me. Do people in LA know what it's like for dairy farmers in Iowa? Should a densely populated area be dictating what happens to them? Should New York be the only city responsible for ranchers in Idaho?

These are good questions. I feel that when discussing them we need to also keep in mind:
1) The interests of the people in LA, NYC, the diary farmers, and the ranchers are complementary, not in opposition. The city people still want to drink milk and eat steak, and the country people rely on the city people to support an economy (most of the economic growth they rely on is generated in cities).
2) The system that allows for out-sized influence still relies on the notion of cooperation to get things done. The whole point of the filibuster has been to make sure everyone is working for the common good, not a narrow segment of the population. Perhaps it's just my vision, but since 2008 or so it seems like Republicans have been much more interested in control than in cooperation.
3) Even within a rural state, you still have the urban areas with most of the population.

I think the Electoral College and Senate representation can be very good idea, but it requires politicians to act in a certain matter, and I just don't know if that is possible today.

 

[fishonjazz]

I hate this conversation because it's simply common sense to me. Do people in LA know what it's like for dairy farmers in Iowa?

Interesting that you would post this.
I have an uncle that owns a huge dairy farm. In LA.

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[Eminence]

Yeah, Iowa doesn't really do dairy. We've got corn/beans/pigs and that's about it.