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2024-2025 Tank Race

HadAnEffectHere said:
I mean, if we fire Will Hardy afterwards too, maybe this comparison will work.

I have to imagine the reason no one plays hard on this team is because Will Hardy is trying to throw games and I don't know if a coach can flip the switch back to respectability.
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I think the same principle applies to the coach. A good coach is a good coach and this "winning culture" thing really doesn't mean much. Time will tell if Hardy actually good or not, but if he fails it won't be because this franchise decided to throw games intentionally. I don't think less of TOR's coach because he has been throwing games intentionally (more than Hardy even). As with the players who are in a "losing culture", it becomes a complete afterthought down the line. Nobody cares that OKC's coach was there when they didn't care to win. The players got better and in large part the players got better inside of a supposed "losing culture". Hardy and Rajakovic are no different from prospects in the sense that if that they will fail or succeed based on their ability and not because of a culture of losing.

I would also say that generally our issues don't have as much to do with us playing hard but simply that they guys we have out there aren't good. I worry about Hardy's ability to teach defensive principles, but I don't really believe in a coach willing his team to play hard and scrappy. These guys playing for their NBA careers are often playing as hard as anyone, but again, that's just a reflection of talent not culture.
 
str8line said:
I'm getting that weird, excited, nervous feeling usually reserved for big playoff games. Tanking is fun! If we win the tank battle and lose out on Cooper I'm definitely flying to wherever the NBA headquarters is and wasting expensive eggs.
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The cost of eggs may keep rising

Might aswell buy for It now If that's the plan
 
KqWIN said:
DET is another good reminder that "losing culture" is only a thing until it isn't. A winning culture is just a team with good talent.
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Mostly agree (and certainly do for Detroit). Maybe the counter example is the Hornets? Seems (from the outside) that they usually have more talent than their record shows.
 
idiot said:
Mostly agree (and certainly do for Detroit). Maybe the counter example is the Hornets? Seems (from the outside) that they usually have more talent than their record shows.
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What about the Suns for god’s sake?

Culture matters. I’m not concerned about that matter with our group.
 
idiot said:
Mostly agree (and certainly do for Detroit). Maybe the counter example is the Hornets? Seems (from the outside) that they usually have more talent than their record shows.
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Hornets just can't stay healthy. Not that they would be amazing, but if they had a full season of health from Williams/Miller/Ball/Bridges/Mann/Williams, they wouldn't be an awful awful team.
 
idiot said:
Mostly agree (and certainly do for Detroit). Maybe the counter example is the Hornets? Seems (from the outside) that they usually have more talent than their record shows.
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I would say that's just a result of injuries and low talent to begin with....but it's kind of unfair to argue from my side. We can very easily find examples of "bad culture" teams that ended up just fine, but we can never really know a "bad culture" team that would have been good with a "good culture". I guess part of the reason why I say it doesn't matter is because what even is "losing" or "winning" culture? Like when Hardy first got here and we were winning with vets, is that a winning culture? And how can we really tell what environment is best for player development? Maybe I'm just talking out of my *** here, but I think an environment with ample opportunity for young players is highly preferred for development and I'd say coaches feel the same way.

All of this just leads me to conclude that good culture is more or less the same thing as having good players. Having the talented players comes first and is what is most important. This is the same for the coach. Obviously you need a good coach, but I don't think a mandated tank is a poor reflection of Hardy as a coach and I don't think it means he can't develop players the way he should be able to. I have my own concerns about our developmental program, but that is more of a concern with Hardy's own ability as a defensive coach and the talent evaluation in the FO. If we had good talent, it wouldn't matter that we are stinking it up right now. For example, we'd completely forget about it if we got Cooper Flagg and he's as good as we think.
 
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but if we dont win the #1 pick we should hope that its either Washington or Charlotte that wins it.

Tankathon says our chances of getting #2 or #3 are lower than #1, but that is because it discounts the scenarios where we have already won an earlier draw. In reality our chances go up every draw we dont win. How much depends on who wins the earlier draw and how many lottery balls they had.

Here is an comparison for the best and worst odds we could have for the third draw:

Worst is that teams #13 and #14 win the first two draws. In that case we have pretty much the same 14% odds to win the 3rd draw.

Best odds come if Washington and Charlotte get the first two picks. In that case 28% of the lotto balls are gone and our share of the remaining balls is 19.4%.

I will also add a pre-emptive "duh" to any response like "Id rather have the Jazz pick #1". Not the point.
 
Tankathon shows us as having the 2nd hardest remaining SOS. Meanwhile, the Wizards have the 5th easiest SOS.

They still have to play:

Utah
76rs twice
Chicago
Brooklyn
Toronto
And the sinking Heat twice

With the Wizards coming in to form as of late and a really easy schedule, I think a 1st.. ehem... last place finish could be in the cards.

I was bullish on the tank to begin the season. But this is beyond what I expected. The Jazz have never made and kept a top 1 or 2 pick. May the year be 2025 followed by another in 2026.
 
HermanG said:
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but if we dont win the #1 pick we should hope that its either Washington or Charlotte that wins it.

Tankathon says our chances of getting #2 or #3 are lower than #1, but that is because it discounts the scenarios where we have already won an earlier draw. In reality our chances go up every draw we dont win. How much depends on who wins the earlier draw and how many lottery balls they had.

Here is an comparison for the best and worst odds we could have for the third draw:

Worst is that teams #13 and #14 win the first two draws. In that case we have pretty much the same 14% odds to win the 3rd draw.

Best odds come if Washington and Charlotte get the first two picks. In that case 28% of the lotto balls are gone and our share of the remaining balls is 19.4%.

I will also add a pre-emptive "duh" to any response like "Id rather have the Jazz pick #1". Not the point.
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Plus Charlotte or Washington getting the first pick hurts their tank for next year.

Sent from my OPD2203 using Tapatalk
 
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