2024 NBA Draft Mega Thread

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think it's been this way for awhile. It's just different kind of content than what they used to make. Their old content was A++++++. Their focus on providing everything and letting the reader/consumer do the evaluating was great.

I do wonder what's going on with Holland. Like his season was disappointing, but was it really that disappointing compared to everyone else? That's why I was wondering if Matas is a lot better in practice because he wasn't better in the actual games. Or does Holland have something extracurricular going on? I am curious to see how the 3 American prospects who were once number one (Matas, Holland, Collier) end up compared to the 3 international guys. I feel like the international guys have been a little hidden, at least from the more casual crowd.

I think it could be a bunch of different things on Holland. Like if I was an actual team that was higher on him and though he might be slipping... I might go ahead and downplay it. Obviously could be some Whitmore stuff behind the scenes (coaches don't like him or he's aloof). Maybe in open gym the shot looks bad too but I can't imagine Castle's looks a whole lot better (though the positive attitude stuff on him likely is giving a boost too).

I just think the evaluators will look at him and say "6-8ish athlete who has a high motor but can't shoot yet... highly rated HS player that ended up in a ****** situation in a pro league... I'm in". I'd be surprised if either Holland or Castle fell out of the top 10 and could see one or both in the top 5.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Tyler Smith? That's pretty high.

His talent level is up there. His motor and engagement might not be.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

His talent level is up there. His motor and engagement might not be.

I like him. Just think he's a bit of a tweener.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Don't know why people are so upset with me calling DX reporters now, that's what they are. When they rank Holland 13, you know that's on the basis of their insider info/exchange of info rather than their own opinion. If Hoop Intellect ranked him 13, I would know that it's just based on his opinion alone. I think both are interesting to read. Like I said, if DX is low on Holland, it makes me wonder what's going behind the scenes to make him drop that low especially in comparison to a guy like Matas.

I misinterpreted what you said. It felt like you were saying they weren’t credible which is why I said what I said.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I think it could be a bunch of different things on Holland. Like if I was an actual team that was higher on him and though he might be slipping... I might go ahead and downplay it. Obviously could be some Whitmore stuff behind the scenes (coaches don't like him or he's aloof). Maybe in open gym the shot looks bad too but I can't imagine Castle's looks a whole lot better (though the positive attitude stuff on him likely is giving a boost too).

I just think the evaluators will look at him and say "6-8ish athlete who has a high motor but can't shoot yet... highly rated HS player that ended up in a ****** situation in a pro league... I'm in". I'd be surprised if either Holland or Castle fell out of the top 10 and could see one or both in the top 5.

Holland was considered a top 5 guy coming into the season. He needs to show shooting touch in his workouts and understand that he's going to be operating with a more limited shot diet. He played pretty loose at Ignite. He's not going to take those shots or make decisions with the ball like he did in the Gleague.

If he really ***** the bed with his shooting in workouts, then teams are going to start asking themselves how much different he is from a guy like Ryan Dunn. However, if he shoots well enough, he checks enough other boxes to be a top 10 guy. I think that's the most likely outcome.

 

[KqWIN]

I think it could be a bunch of different things on Holland. Like if I was an actual team that was higher on him and though he might be slipping... I might go ahead and downplay it. Obviously could be some Whitmore stuff behind the scenes (coaches don't like him or he's aloof). Maybe in open gym the shot looks bad too but I can't imagine Castle's looks a whole lot better (though the positive attitude stuff on him likely is giving a boost too).

I just think the evaluators will look at him and say "6-8ish athlete who has a high motor but can't shoot yet... highly rated HS player that ended up in a ****** situation in a pro league... I'm in". I'd be surprised if either Holland or Castle fell out of the top 10 and could see one or both in the top 5.

I think you can draw a lot of parallels to Kuminga. Ironically, I think it was actually Givony who said "WTF are we talking about, it's Jon Kuminga" when Kuminga was seemingly slipping in the draft because of his poor performance. Maybe we will land on that once again. It may not be be for every team, but I'd agree with you that I would have a hard time seeing 10 teams not buying into it.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Holland was considered a top 5 guy coming into the season. He needs to show shooting touch in his workouts and understand that he's going to be operating with a more limited shot diet. He played pretty loose at Ignite. He's not going to take those shots or make decisions with the ball like he did at Ignite.

I get that. But if I was a GM I would think he'd be really loose and shooting a ton on that team. I wouldn't really be concerned about that. I also think he has a better excuse for poor shooting than like my guy Castle... as he made the leap from HS to NBA three point line. The FT shooting wasn't bad so I think there are signs there.

If this draft wasn't a tire fire I would understand the critical takes on Holland and see him sliding to end of lotto... in this draft though?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think you can draw a lot of parallels to Kuminga. Ironically, I think it was actually Givony who said "WTF are we talking about, it's Jon Kuminga" when Kuminga was seemingly slipping in the draft because of his poor performance. Maybe we will land on that once again. It may not be be for every team, but I'd agree with you that I would have a hard time seeing 10 teams not buying into it.

And I can see that comp but also I think Holland has a more defined position projectible role than Kuminga did... who was kinda this mystery box of potential (and still is).

I think the Ignite history is hitting Holland as well. Long and short of it is I think the hate has gone too far and I could easily see measurements or a couple reports of good workouts throwing him top 5.

At this point I'm getting more comfortable just staying at #8 if Castle or Holland were there. Obviously Shep/Topic would be cool too if they were the "fallers".

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I like him. Just think he's a bit of a tweener.

He's a knock-down shooter at the 4. Offensively, he's in the same league as Jabari Smith, imo. The question is what else is he willing to do. I don't think he'd be as high a priority for the Jazz with the way Hendricks started fitting in this year. The Jazz desperately need on-ball creation. And if they want a pure shooter, Knecht is going to be pretty appealing.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I get that. But if I was a GM I would think he'd be really loose and shooting a ton on that team. I wouldn't really be concerned about that. I also think he has a better excuse for poor shooting than like my guy Castle... as he made the leap from HS to NBA three point line. The FT shooting wasn't bad so I think there are signs there.

If this draft wasn't a tire fire I would understand the critical takes on Holland and see him sliding to end of lotto... in this draft though?

The bigger problem with Castle isn't that his shooting percentages were low. It's that he passed up open shots and drove into traffic repeatedly. He didn't want to shoot. That suggests he's got further to go in his development, especially as a guard.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

He's a knock-down shooter at the 4. Offensively, he's in the same league as Jabari Smith, imo. The question is what else is he willing to do. I don't think he'd be as high a priority for the Jazz with the way Hendricks started fitting in this year. The Jazz desperately need on-ball creation. And if they want a pure shooter, Knecht is going to be pretty appealing.

Who does he guard? Seems to have a typical PF build but not the mobility of a guy like Smith and Hendricks. That's why I think he's a tweener.

 

[KqWIN]

And I can see that comp but also I think Holland has a more defined position projectible role than Kuminga did... who was kinda this mystery box of potential (and still is).

I think the Ignite history is hitting Holland as well. Long and short of it is I think the hate has gone too far and I could easily see measurements or a couple reports of good workouts throwing him top 5.

At this point I'm getting more comfortable just staying at #8 if Castle or Holland were there. Obviously Shep/Topic would be cool too if they were the "fallers".

Right....on one hand I think the criticisms are fair and valid, on the other hand I think he is being dropped too far for his cons. I would love to have Holland or Castle at #8, I have Holland ahead because I think the "if he can shoot" scenario yields more potential. Castle is definitely more refined and I think a smarter player, but Holland isn't that bad at the role player stuff. I would have liked to see Holland in a 22% USG role on a good team instead of 28% USG role on a team getting whooped every night.

Holland is 100% an Ainge type as well.