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4th of July and Religion

LogGrad98 said:
Nationalism seems to run so afoul of real biblical Christianity as to be a parody of it. How in the ****ing hell can they say that they will force this on everyone while also loving their neighbor as themselves. Condemn everyone to hell, but forgive them for they know not what they do. The way Christianity has been bastardized and commercialized and every other -ized is just sickening in so many ways. Jesus would in no way recognize any of this as any kind of religion he espoused. I am sure he would liken this kind of thing far more to the money-lenders in the temple than the widow and her mite. Just disgusting how they use this all for political and financial gain, and for NO OTHER REASON. It is like we are heading into the crusades all over again. How long until the inquisition? What a joke, a blasphemous and sacrilegious joke.
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Americanized Christianity seems more like a disease than a meaningful and fulfilling faith to me. Talk about leading astray. It’s an illness. And it bears watching.
 
Red said:
Americanized Christianity seems more like a disease than a meaningful and fulfilling faith to me. Talk about leading astray. It’s an illness. And it bears watching.
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To be honest it is starting to take on divisions similar to Islam, imo. There is the majority view, that is a peaceful religion that brings a lot of people happiness, preaches doing good to your fellow man, and guides them as a moral compass. Then there is the small minority militant aspect where the religion is used as a weapon. Christianity in America is starting down a similar path. I think the majority of Christians in American are of the live and let live and love your fellow man variety, while there is a growing portion that is more militant and about using their influence to gain and maintain their power. That is why I threw out the rhetorical, how long until we see crusades and inquisitions? That is a frightening thought, tbh.
 
The Thriller said:
I’m curious why you think it’s taken the media so long to recognize the danger this movement poses for American democracy? It’s not like it’s new. Mike Huckabee’s campaign in 2008 was far more explicit with his embrace with Christian nationalism than Trumps (perhaps that’s why Trump won and Huckabee and Santorum didn’t?)




Santorum:




www.thedailybeast.com

Christian Sharia Law in America

It’s not just the fringe anymore. Mainstream conservatives are trying to bring America’s laws into agreement with ‘God’s law.’
www.thedailybeast.com www.thedailybeast.com

It’s not like they’re screaming into the void. This should horrify most people on this website:



www.pewresearch.org

Half of Americans say Bible should influence U.S. laws, including 28% who favor it over the will of the people

About half of Americans say the Bible should have at least “some” influence on U.S. laws; 23% say it should have “a great deal” of influence.
www.pewresearch.org www.pewresearch.org
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The thing is the bible does have influence on US politics, if only because politicians cannot separate themselves from who the are and many of them believe in the Bible. It's where all the anti-abortion stuff is coming from. The anti-contraception stuff too, for some stupid ****ing reason. It's the foundation of the MAGA belief system, as in it's the best thing to hold up to show people you believe what they believe as part of your brainwashing program.

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LogGrad98 said:
The thing is the bible does have influence on US politics, if only because politicians cannot separate themselves from who the are and many of them believe in the Bible. It's where all the anti-abortion stuff is coming from. The anti-contraception stuff too, for some stupid ****ing reason. It's the foundation of the MAGA belief system, as in it's the best thing to hold up to show people you believe what they believe as part of your brainwashing program.

View attachment 12854
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Good pts.

So why is this happening now?

Demographic change?
Church leaders becoming desperate because the pews are emptying so they’re firing up the inflammatory rhetoric?
There’s a global authoritarian movement that seems to be overtaking western democracies?
People are bored without a secular communist to combat?

Like what is it?

And why are we blaming gays and abortion as solutions to problems with late stage capitalism? You could burn every gay person and abortion Dr at the town square and those coal mine and car manufacturing jobs aren’t coming back.
 
LogGrad98 said:
"By their fruits ye shall know them."
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How is democracy supposed to survive? Like we could argue what the appropriate rate of corporate taxation should be and find compromises. But when one party thinks only white Christians should have all the rights, only Republicans should win elections, laws only apply to political opponents, Jews use space lasers, Qanon, and vaccines are bad and Putin is good, where does that leave us?
 
Im just glad we live in a country that Jesus himself ministered in and blessed. John 3:16 says that Jesus said, “America for da win and Santa is white.”

Imagine if we lived in a country that didn’t have Jesus’s blessing.
 
Red said:
This could go in the thread dealing specifically with the rise of Christian nationalism. But, it works here as well, simply because Christian nationalism is becoming an integral part of the MAGA movement. And it is very much a dangerous development in terms of having a most detrimental affect on American democracy. And from where I stand, it’s really a most anti-Christian message. But, partly in view of how difficult it can be to see ourselves clearly, we can’t expect MAGA to have any degree of healthy self awareness at all, they cannot see how antithetical to Christianity that Christian nationalism truly is. And that blindness is what makes MAGA and Christian nationalism so very dangerous….

Nostalgia for an idealized past. How very fascist of our MAGA movement:

baptistnews.com

Nostalgia for idealized past and toxic fear of the future fuel Christian nationalism, scholars say – Baptist News Global

Nostalgia for an idealized American past combined with a toxic fear of the future is driving Christian nationalist claims that the coming midterm and 2024 presidential elections are battles between God and Satan in which Democrats are allied with the...
baptistnews.com baptistnews.com

”Nostalgia for an idealized American past combined with a toxic fear of the future is driving Christian nationalist claims that the coming midterm and 2024 presidential elections are battles between God and Satan in which Democrats are allied with the forces of evil, according to a recent report by the University of California at Berkeley.”


View: https://twitter.com/WajahatAli/status/1575354982844563457


View: https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1575888569696022528

time.com

3 Threats Christian Nationalism Poses to the United States

A national poll shows a majority of one political party favors declaring the U.S. a Christian nation
time.com time.com

Mixing Christianity with nationalism is a recipe for fascism:

nymag.com

Mixing Christianity With Nationalism Is a Recipe for Fascism

Ron DeSantis is but the latest in a long series of leaders exploiting Jesus, the enemy of all nationalism.
nymag.com nymag.com

And yet, MAGA and the GOP love that recipe:
www.politico.com

Most Republicans Support Declaring the United States a Christian Nation

New polling shows the appeal — and limits — of a Christian nationalist message.
www.politico.com www.politico.com
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Decided to move the above posting to this thread, since it’s more germane here.

The lessons I take from this are two fold. One, people do not recognize what is happening while it is happening. Hence history is littered with train wreck style results, because although “those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it”, sounds like a great observation, and underlies the best reason to understand history, for how and where it informs the present, the fact is every generation will more likely learn the same damn things anew, because they did not live that past mistake themselves. And they seldom care for history.

I don’t think history repeats. I think human nature repeats. So we can’t be surprised when we see the second lesson I take from this: people can be enveloped in irrational beliefs, containing a nonsense narrative at its core, up to and including a nonsense interpretation of their nation’s history and purpose, without in the least bit realizing it. Realizing it’s nonsensical nature. They won’t see any danger in it. And there may not be any, but in the form of a populist reactionary crusade against modernity and with messianic-nationalist purpose, well, that might be something we want to pay attention to. Judging from the past, and judging from human nature and forgetfulness.
 
To me, he’s one of the most dangerous men in America, but I’m no fan of marrying nationalist fervor with a totally intolerant bigotry pretending to be a religious faith, the so-called “Great Re-Awakening”.

“This story is part of an ongoing investigation from The Associated Press and “Frontline” that includes the upcoming documentary “Michael Flynn’s Holy War,” premiering Oct. 18 on PBS and online.”:

apnews.com

Michael Flynn: From government insider to holy warrior

BATAVIA, N.Y. (AP) — The crowd swayed on its feet, arms pumping, the beat of Twisted Sister’s “We’re Not Gonna Take It” thumping in their chests.
apnews.com apnews.com

apnews.com

Michael Flynn’s ReAwaken roadshow recruits ‘Army of God'

BATAVIA, N.Y. (AP) — By the time the red, white and blue-colored microphone had been switched off, the crowd of 3,000 had listened to hours of invective and grievance. “We’re under warfare,” one speaker told them.
apnews.com apnews.com
 
For those who may be interested in this topic, Frontline will air this examination of holy warrior Gen. Michael Flynn tonight. It will also be available to stream for awhile…

“How did Michael Flynn go from being an elite soldier overseas to waging a “spiritual war” in America? In collaboration with the Associated Press, FRONTLINE examines how the retired three-star general has emerged as a leader in a far-right movement that puts its brand of Christianity at the center of American civic life and institutions and is attracting election deniers, conspiracists and extremists from around the country”.

www.pbs.org

Michael Flynn's Holy War | FRONTLINE

Watch FRONTLINE & The Associated Press' documentary, which examines how Michael Flynn has emerged as a leader in a far-right movement that is attracting election deniers, conspiracists and extremists from around America.
www.pbs.org
 
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