DeliveryBoy
Active Member
I know they don't count as "real Americans," but I wish the pro-Koran burners would realize that there are many, many Muslim American citizens too.
9/11/2010 Burn a Koran Day
- Thread starter Archie Moses
- Start date
Beantown
Well-Known Member
Its something we find disrespectful. Drinking coffee or smoking doesnt disrepect me. But if you did it during my daughters baptism at church it would offend me. Big Love went out of their way to depict the temple ceremony on tv. They spent time on it. The funny thing is the FLDS does not even participate in the same temple ceremony that was depicted. They mixed our church with theirs. Atleast get it right if you are going to spend the time an money on it.
The Islamic world? You mean the extremists? The Islamic world in general condemns extreme actions, the same as we do.
The extremists of every belief try and pit people and ideas against each other. Don't get sucked into their hatred.
Are there hypocrites in the Muslim Islamic world? Of course. Doesn't mean we can just say "well those people over there who do stupid things, so we will too!".
Don't let the loudest voices speak for everyone. If you don't do the right thing(as hard as it may be sometimes), then you are no better than anyone.
From this post it is obvious that you did not see the episode in question.
The plot at the time revolved around one character being excommunicated from the mainstream LDS church because of her practice of plural marriage. This particular character was raised in the LDS church and went along with her husband's desire to "live the principle" of plural marriage when she was deathly ill and did not believe she was going to survive long in the plural marriage community. As a result, a formal action to remove her from her upbringing in the church deeply affects her.
She uses her sister's temple recommend to particpate in the endowment ceremony and spend time in the celestial room with her mother. It's a final chapter of any tie between her and the mainstream LDS church and one of the few times we see her and her mother in a non-conflict based scenario.
To say that the show mixed the FLDS church with the LDS church is patently inaccurate, as the distinction was the central plot arc of the episode. The show also had significant thematic and artistic reasons for depicting a simulation of the ceremony and a conversation inside the Celestial room and there was no plausible alternative to get to the same ground.
In sum, you have no clue what you're talking about and are just parroting something someone told you about the show.
In any event, feel free to answer any of my questions regarding the differences between simulations and actual performances or why it is offensive. Merely stating that it is offensive is not an answer.
Beantown
Well-Known Member
I never did see the episode because I dont pay for HBO. So I do stand corrected. "Simulations" of the temple ceremony are offensive to LDS members. Any participation in those would be grounds for being excommunicated. We believe what goes on in there should only be discussed in the walls of the temples. So to know they are on national television for everyone to see is offensive. But Big Love has every right to do what they did and they should have that right. Just like artists should have the right to draw Mohammed.
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
The point is that 500 years ago, most European nations were Christian led. Think "royal 'we'." When word of something like Bible burning would get to these nations, what reaction do you think they'd have? Oh wait, you don't need to know. It happened. Lots of death, that whole multiple crusade thing.
Now in the modern day, there are no major Christian nations. Those nations that are majority Christian are run on secular law and not religious law. This is not the case for Islam, as there are many Islamic led nations. Iran, of course, is one example.
My understanding of LDS history is that Joseph Smith "revealed" the temple ceremony shortly after joining the Freemasons. He shared the ceremony with all members of his church in good standing. The ceremony was so similar to a secret Freemason ceremony that he was kicked out of the Freemasons and soon thereafter he was dead under questionable circumstances. Is my understanding wrong?
What is the scriptural basis for this claim?
Is there any basis for why activities outside of the tokens and signs must remain secret? For example, is it offensive if someone did every part of the ceremony except for the exchanging of tokens and signs? What is the distinction between those sections and the rest?
I didn't see it either, but may I try to answer your question from another angle?
Mormons (I am one, just in case anyone wasn't aware) have a persecution complex, of sorts. From our perspective, our faith has been misunderstood basically from it's inception. Historically, members pay a social price for their faith. Some of it is based in ignorance, and some in the quirky (read: weird) things we do. There are a lot of things in the church that members are asked to show special reverence for, mainly by not discussing them outside of the appropriate venues. This, naturally, doesn't do much to progress understanding by those outside of the church. Be that as it may, mormons are very guarded about these things. When we see something of this nature depicted out in the open for everyone to see, I think it leaves us feeling vulnerable. We're strange anyway, no need to make it worse, y'know. I believe that's where the offense truly stems from.
I think, in a way, Archie's answer was correct, but it didn't address the core of the issue. It addressed the face.
The extent of the connection between LDS theology and freemasonry is hotly disputed, with a strong tendency for advocates on both sides to have a pretty clear agenda.
Some similarities are present, as they are between freemasonry and many Christian religions. The barrier between masonic lodges and christian practice has long been porous.
I don't believe this part is accurate.
Same here. I'm pretty sure it's not seriously alleged anywhere that the Mason's killed Smith.
