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A Modern Defensive Scheme

Lets just go pick up that defensive genius coach who is out of work just sitting around doing nothing and convince him to be a assistant for us. That should be easy.
 
The Thriller said:
In basketball, VERY FEW players can actually stay in front of other players. One on one, no one in the NBA can cover the opposing player. Not legally anyway.
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Good point. Jerry's system worked better before Stern changed the rules to favor more offense.

The Thriller said:
The cure is deception and scheming to funnel players into places they don't want to go.

Deception... Act as if you're going to press and bail.
Act like you're in a zone when you're not.
Act like you're in man when you're not.
Act like you're going to double team then bail.
Quickly bring a trap.

Keep opposing offenses guessing when you're going to "blitz" and who's coming is critical for football. Why not in Basketball?
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I like it. Innovative. You be the new defensive coach.
 
Traps don't work well in the NBA because all players on a team are generally competent with the ball.

Seriously, trapping Rose and having Deng go 4 on 3 is somehow a good thing?
 
Both are at fault. The players aren't buying the sceme (wrong or right) and since they don't buy the sceme they aren't playing hard. I think defense is more about effort then sceme. If guys are rotating, switching, fighting through screens, contesting shots, and playing hard good things seem to happen. Currently the players aren't doing these things and the coachs aren't pushing them openly about it... (look at our first quarter points allowed)
 
GoJazz said:
Both are at fault. The players aren't buying the sceme (wrong or right) and since they don't buy the sceme they aren't playing hard. I think defense is more about effort then sceme. If guys are rotating, switching, fighting through screens, contesting shots, and playing hard good things seem to happen. Currently the players aren't doing these things and the coachs aren't pushing them openly about it... (look at our first quarter points allowed)
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If you believe as a player that your scheme is bad, your motivation is going to be lacking. Do you really think the players are surprised to see other teams rain down 3s on them? Its been going on for years and it is the scheme, not the players. It gets very disheartening, de-motivating to play with a defense that you know is no good. Its the coaching. And it sure is good to know that Ty learned all he knows from Jerry so we have "continuity" or something.
 
I know that Sloan left with 3/4 into the season, but I am alarmed that Ty hasn't changed things up more. Against Minnesota, they started 10 for 10, I think any coach would know it's time to give them a different look. I think we need to use the zone a lot more when we clearly have no one that can stop their man. I think we should front the post 3/4. It is obvious that forcing your man to the middle hasn't worked since the Jazz lost to Houston in 95. Guys love to force it to the middle, the Jazz collapse, opponents dish out to a wide open three pointer...we know the rest.
 
LogGrad98 said:
You guys miss the point. The issue I have is not if they are out of position to make the defensive play, or if they have a coherent plan to contain the opposing teams best player or if they have plans that make them a precision team. Yes they need better systems for sure. That is not the biggest concern imo.

It is when you are right in front of your guy, he get the ball, stands there, then rises to shoot the 3. No screens, no nothing, just starts to shoot right in front of him, and our guy makes NO MOVE WHATSOEVER to challenge the shot. It is when someone has a minor breakaway and one of our players is even with them when they head toward their basket and our guy GIVES UP ON THE PLAY, just stops and watches the guy lay it up. It is when someone makes a move to the basket and our guy just steps aside, matador defense. Really the lack of personal effort is pathetic right now.

The best system in the world will not get a player to choose to raise his hands above waist height. The player has to choose to move his own arms. Right now for our team their arms are hanging limp and impotent at their sides.
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I think that many, myself included, probably have overlooked the amount of effort (or lack thereof) the Jazz have put forth in the last 2 weeks.

I don't think even Cleveland would fall behind by 30 to Chicago.

I don't think many college teams could be blown out by the Twolves.

Yet, we've managed to do that.

Yes, the defensive scheme does need a lot of work.

But the effort that our team is putting forth... Such as the first half against Chicago... Might quite honestly be the worst effort by a Jazz team ever.
 
So why the lack of effort you need to ask yourself? Did the entire team become a bunch of bums all of a sudden? I think not. I think it is likely all the turmoil and the loss of the one guy that could carry the team. That is very disheartening, along with an old and outdated defensive scheme that has been old and outdated for some time, yet the brandnew coach apparently likes old and outdated. How motivating is all that?
 
When we get killed time and time again on Pick and Rolls, it's not because guys are being lazy. There is indecision about how much to show, when to switch, and the three guys not involved in the play clearly aren't sure what they should be doing. You see the same thing on double teams. Yet when you watch the Bulls, you see something else entirely. They're trained to execute one of two things: 1) a predetermined strategy to leave certain players unguarded based on weaknesses (ie. shooters who can't shoot); 2) They frequently rotate so precisely that the only unguarded man is on the other side of the floor--a very tricky skip pass for anyone to make.

We don't do this. The guys we have are thoroughly capable of it. Effort is important, too, but they need a system. There was a good quote, not sure who said it, but Thib's guys are all "lined up on a string." That's our compass.
 
billyshelby said:
When we get killed time and time again on Pick and Rolls, it's not because guys are being lazy. There is indecision about how much to show, when to switch, and the three guys not involved in the play clearly aren't sure what they should be doing. You see the same thing on double teams. Yet when you watch the Bulls, you see something else entirely. They're trained to execute one of two things: 1) a predetermined strategy to leave certain players unguarded based on weaknesses (ie. shooters who can't shoot); 2) They frequently rotate so precisely that the only unguarded man is on the other side of the floor--a very tricky skip pass for anyone to make.

We don't do this. The guys we have are thoroughly capable of it. Effort is important, too, but they need a system. There was a good quote, not sure who said it, but Thib's guys are all "lined up on a string." That's our compass.
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Billy has been owning the discussion on defense for a while now. But, have you said anything with respect to the 'force middle' vs. 'force baseline' discussion? just curious.
 
To force or not force baseline is simplistic. It's beaten into guys heads never to get beat baseline and you certainly don't want ballhandlers getting underneath the hoop while trying to use the baseline as a 'defender.' I generally agree with that because once a guy is all the way inside easy buckets and fouls follow. I'm also not sure you have to have a hard rule about this. Like, I wouldn't force a guy baseline if he's going with his strong hand. I'd always want to force a guy to his weak hand and let him make a play he doesn't want to make.

The first help defender only needs to be quick in his rotation. The guy who got beat either doubles or slides. It's the other 3 guys who need to complete the D. In this exact scenario, the Bulls are great. The wing penetrating quickly finds himself covered by a big, his outlet passes inside are covered, and he's got to find somebody on the perimeter. When we do it it's a horror show of guys lost in space. So I don't really get the whole, "just force guys baseline" argument.
 
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