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Aaron Gordon = Kawhi Leonard

b_line said:
Yeah since we all know the team with the best wing defense has won the title every year for the last zero years in a row ever.


The only thing the playoffs continually teach us is that you need to have one of the best players in the league and a good cast surrounding them. Kobe. Dirk, durant, lebron have been in the finals or won titles recently, and they were among the best in the league, coupled with good coaching and on a decent, if not great team around them.

We are drafting in this draft for a top tier player, not some guy who we can trot out as our one sided "answer" to lebron or Durant. We need a Durant or a lebron or even a Paul pierce. If Aaron gordon is going to be a one dimensional stopper playing spot minutes, then why the hell not just pick up a similar player later in the draft? It would certainly cost less.
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most teams I've remembered that have won it all had good wing defense
 
LazyD said:
most teams I've remembered that have won it all had good wing defense
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b-line is cute.

2014 - SAS - Kawhi (beat LeBron)
2013 and 2012 - Heat - LeBron (beat Durant)
2011 - Dallas - Marion (beat LeBron)
2010 and 2009 - Kobe, Artest (beat Pierce)
2008 - Boston - Tony Allen (beat Kobe)
2007 - SAS - Bruce Bowen. (beat LeBron)

I don't think we need to continue, but we certainly can if b-line doesn't get the point. Many of those teams had superstars at the wing, but some didn't - the only common denominator is that all had an elite wing defender. And in those cases where there wasn't a superstar wing, they always beat a team with an elite wing scorer.
 
LazyD said:
most teams I've remembered that have won it all had good wing defense
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But outside of lebron, it was not from their best player. We are looking for a superstar. These guys are talking about Aaron gordon playing situationally and becoming the next kawhi Leonard like that is what we tanked for. We want kd, not sefalosha. Dirk, not Marion.

Kawhi Leonard is a good player, but he is not single handedly leading his team to the title. The spurs still have Duncan, Parker and ginobili, and the best team concept ever invented.

All I am saying is that we can get good defense on the wing somewhere other than our top pick. So of we are trying to become sold in Aaron gordon, what else can he do? Why is he more than a one dimensional player?
 
b_line said:
But outside of lebron, it was not from their best player. We are looking for a superstar. These guys are talking about Aaron gordon playing situationally and becoming the next kawhi Leonard like that is what we tanked for. We want kd, not sefalosha. Dirk, not Marion.

Kawhi Leonard is a good player, but he is not single handedly leading his team to the title. The spurs still have Duncan, Parker and ginobili, and the best team concept ever invented.

All I am saying is that we can get good defense on the wing somewhere other than our top pick. So of we are trying to become sold in Aaron gordon, what else can he do? Why is he more than a one dimensional player?
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Your last paragraph is probably true, but that doesn't change my comment that having an elite wing defender is essential to Nba playoff success. I'm not advocating the Jazz draft Gordon, I'm just saying he brings some things to the table that add value and i'd be okay if he's the guy.

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seattlejazzfan said:
b-line is cute.

2014 - SAS - Kawhi
2013 and 2012 - Heat - LeBron
2011 - Dallas - Marion
2010 and 2009 - Kobe, Artest
2008 - Boston - Tony Allen
2007 - SAS - Bruce Bowen.

I don't think we need to continue, but we certainly can if b-line doesn't get the point. Many of those teams had superstars at the wing, but some didn't - the only common denominator is that all had an elite wing defender.
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Wrong. The only common denominator is that each team had an elite superstar playing out of their mind. Yes they had good defense.

But they also had lebron, Duncan, Parker, pierce, Garnett, Ray Allen, Dwayne wade, etc.

To say that we are going to contend for a title by getting good wing defense is a little bit premature. We don't have anyone on this team even remotely close to as good as tony Parker this year. Let alone lebron. If you are drafting for wing defense, at least pick a guy whose current and projected position is not power forward. Gordon might be great, and I can see an argument for picking him, if he reaches his potential. But the argument that wing defense wins titles is predicated on having a superstar on the team as well, at least if you look at the evidence of the last thirty years title teams excluding Detroit in 2004.
 
Pop himself has said that Kawhi is just beginning to feel what it is like to be great on the perimeter ON BOTH ENDS OF THE COURT. In other words, Kawhi played down low in college, and, according to Pop, it has taken him this long to fully adjust and realize his gifts.

Gordon has talent, but he has further to go than Kawhi did.

Gordon is a good prospect, but he's definitely a project.

(Can you believe the Spurs got Kawhi for George ****ing Hill???)
 
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Let's face it...

We suck.

If we ever hope to compete in the top 4 let alone at the Spurs' level, we need to upgrade our wings, upgrade our PG, upgrade our bench, obtain another 2-3 shooters, completely overhaul our coaching (hopefully Snyder does that), and finally get ourselves a defensive big (maybe Favors finds a heart or Gobert Report figures things out).

It's not just 1 or 2 players that will magically transform this team. We earned our bottom of the WC record.

This team regardless of who they draft this year is headed to the lottery for at least another year or two. Not even rookie Lebron or magic could bring this team from worst in the WC to playoff in 1 year.
 
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Lol finding wing defense is easier to address than snagging a proper first option on offense.

Let's try and actually become an offensively capable team before we even worry about wing defense. Drafting Gordon at 5 while using the perimeter-defense argument is a dumb one IMO. If players like Jimmy Butler can be had in the late 1st round, then we don't need to waste a ****ing 5th pick in a deep draft for the same need.
 
My2Cents said:
I agree. I like everything else he brings. I just think if you draft him you have to base it on the skills you know he has. You can't factor in that you think he will learn to shoot at some point.
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fair point
 
b_line said:
Clean tony early is a good candidate later in the draft if we are looking for a 3 and D guy this year. Would rather have him if that is all Aaron gordon is going to be.


I don't hate gordon, I am just not sold on his potential to be Scottie pippen or Shawn Marion like the rest in this thread.
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You make a very good point. I think the draft is all about potential. Every player in this draft is being drafted on their potential to grow into something better. There is not a rookie in this draft that is going to be starting in the All Star Team, at least as far as I can tell. So, every player (including the top 4) have some serious risks.

Wiggins has shooting concerns as well, so why is it that everyone here would jump all over the chance to draft him? Gordon played Wiggins in High School, and they both went to college for one year. The reason has to be that Wiggins has much more potential, at least in the eyes of scouts. Embiid has the potential to be a beast, but he has a lot to learn and develop to get there, right?

The most NBA ready player is Parker, but long-term everyone is concerned about him being athletic enough to be a decent defender.

So, looking at the top of the list, its all about which players have the greatest ability to achieve their ceilings. Personally, I know of Gordon's work ethic... he's got a great rep among 'Zona circles as someone who is taking the gave very seriously. I am sold on him because I have a high degree of confidence that he will achieve his potential. He also has good three point percentages. Yes he only shot one a game, that's just the way the AZ offense works out. He was seldom set up to shoot those, often he was bailing out the offense or it was clutch time and he was taking the game over (which I would liked to have seen more of). I think he shot a great percentage for that situation. Stats are nice, but irrelevant without context.

Does that mean he is the only good player in the draft or only good player for the Jazz? No, not at all. I would be happy with other players too. I think Wiggins has huge potential and has the pride to reach it. I think Parker has the pride and IQ to figure out how to be a serviceable defender at the next level, and his offense will translate just fine.

Others are exciting, but I just don't know about. Exum? Looks impressive on a few videos, but that's not much for us to go off of. Could be very interesting though. Vonleh? Same... good measurements, and probably has a good upside. I just keep seeing him as the next Marvin Williams for some reason. Randle? I have to think its in the realm of possibility to learn how to use his off hand.


The draft is like the stock market... current status is not the only thing that shapes the value, news and its perception of impact on future value is the real impact here.

Here is what we do know about Gordon:
-Elite athletic ability
-Led all of college basketball finishing at the rim. (That's important because in the 'Zona offense, that's where he was supposed to be finishing)
-He is in GREAT shape, and always has been
-MVP of USA Basketball (a team that included several of this drafts players)
-He has great court vision and is a very good passer
-He is ready to defend (team and individual) immediately at the next level
-He would fit in great for the Jazz next season on the wing (Either starting at the 3 with Gordon at the 2, or ideally as the 6th man... depends on if the new coach frees Burks up finally or asks him to lead the bench again).
-If you watch the games, Gordon just makes plays, keeps the ball alive, and has all the intangibles.
-Great first step, let's him create his own shot off the dribble (one thing most 'Zona fans complained about was how everything was over focused on Nick... would have loved to have seen Gordon set free some more, but it was a very controlled offense)

I do believe if Gordon had gone to a different school, he would likely be in the talk of a top pick. He would have averaged 18+ points per game at a place like Oregon. Instead he wanted to win a title so he chose a loaded AZ team... and that's a real big plus in my book.
 
Leonard is a special player. Comparing Gordon to him seems optimistic to me, but then I've seen exactly one Gordon highlight video. From what little I've seen, he just looks like a better version of our Gordon. And our Gordon is not in the same class as San Antonio's Gordon.
 
billyshelby said:
Leonard is a special player. Comparing Gordon to him seems optimistic to me, but then I've seen exactly one Gordon highlight video. From what little I've seen, he just looks like a better version of our Gordon. And our Gordon is not in the same class as San Antonio's Gordon.
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At this point in his career, Gordon is FAR superior to where Leonard was. He has greater athleticism, shot better from 3, finished at the rim stronger and is probably a slightly better defender. Both had very good BBIQ, but Gordon sees the court a tad better, although college Leonard was certainly no slouch. Of course on opening day 2014, Leonard will be the better player, but he is 4 years older (one more years of college and 2 as a pro). As long as Gordon has good coaching it is very well within the realm of possibility that he will be just as good or perhaps better than Leonard.
 
If Aaron Gordon = Kawhi Leonard that means Hot Dog = Steak. Gordon is closer to David Benoit then Leonard. Not bad but not as good.
 
nateboz said:
If Aaron Gordon = Kawhi Leonard that means Hot Dog = Steak. Gordon is closer to David Benoit then Leonard. Not bad but not as good.
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Hu? Lol. How can you say this at this point. Think back Kawhi predraft and compare to gordon predraft. AG is ahead of where Kawhi was at 18.
 
nateboz said:
If Aaron Gordon = Kawhi Leonard that means Hot Dog = Steak. Gordon is closer to David Benoit then Leonard. Not bad but not as good.
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Kawhi's good... There is no reason Gordon can't be better than him though. I don't get the comparison though. They aren't the same player. Similar college numbers but different players. I think Gordon will play both forward positions but will be best when playing 4. He is Shawn Marion. Would be a solid choice at 5.
 
Lattimer said:
Hu? Lol. How can you say this at this point. Think back Kawhi predraft and compare to gordon predraft. AG is ahead of where Kawhi was at 18.
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Kawhi shot horrible from 3 in college. He still shot 75% from the line. Gordon shot 42% from the line (76 of 180) He MISSED over 100 freaking free throws. Kawhi also has huge... Hands hahaha
 
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