Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (democratic socialist) wins NY primary

[LogGrad98]

Here is an example of why I think the narrative matters. This article is a good description of how this can devolve into a fight over ideologies rather than a productive discussion on how to remedy the situation.

https://www.newsweek.com/alexandria...ps-migrants-southern-border-academics-1444953

And I think detention center or something similar is descriptive enough without being distracting from discourse.

I see this at work a lot where people who have an axe to grind are happy to fight over semantics rather than address the issue itself. It's aggravating to see so much time wasted on that kind of an argument. I usually cut right through it and bring everyone back to topic so that experience is probably bleeding over into my take on this situation.

 

[Zombie]

I see this is a clever bit of misdirection, those on the right who are crowing about this are trying to make the conversation about semantics as way to minimize the horror of these camps. Dressing them up in PC terms like "detention centers" doesn't really portray the horror of what we're doing to these people. How are we supposed to solve this problem if we aren't even willing to correctly identify it?

 

[LogGrad98]

I see this is a clever bit of misdirection, those on the right who are crowing about this are trying to make the conversation about semantics as way to minimize the horror of these camps. Dressing them up in PC terms like "detention centers" doesn't really portray the horror of what we're doing to these people. How are we supposed to solve this problem if we aren't even willing to correctly identify it?

If what you want is a fight over what name to use, you've got it. Notice while they are fighting over what to call it they can conveniently avoid any discussion on how to fix it. It's exactly what those who support the camps/centers want. But by all means, let's spend months and months fighting over what to call it and then call victory when someone finally says your word from the other side.

 

[Zombie]

If what you want is a fight over what name to use, you've got it. Notice while they are fighting over what to call it they can conveniently avoid any discussion on how to fix it. It's exactly what those who support the camps/centers want. But by all means, let's spend months and months fighting over what to call it and then call victory when someone finally says your word from the other side.

I believe they are fighting about what to call them because calling them something they are not minimizes their severity. People don't necessarily believe we need to take action to stop "detention centers," I don't think anyone is comfortable with us running concentration camps. Like I said, before we can have a meaningful conversation about stopping the practice we need to accurately identify its seriousness.

 

[gandalfe]

Republicans have been fantastic at controlling the narrative over the past few decades. "Death panels" and "job creators" for example. They seem to have lost their touch recently.

 

[One Brow]

And I think detention center or something similar is descriptive enough without being distracting from discourse.

People going to detention for doing something wrong. People who have tried to claim asylum and wound up in a concentration camp haven't done anything wrong. Context matters. The primary source of the objections to "concentration camp" seem to be coming from people who support their existence, and want a phrase that doesn't remind them what the camps really are.

I see this at work a lot where people who have an axe to grind are happy to fight over semantics rather than address the issue itself. It's aggravating to see so much time wasted on that kind of an argument. I usually cut right through it and bring everyone back to topic so that experience is probably bleeding over into my take on this situation.

However, some actors in politics rely on using these distractions, because they last thing they want to do is fix the problem.

 

[LogGrad98]

People going to detention for doing something wrong. People who have tried to claim asylum and wound up in a concentration camp haven't done anything wrong. Context matters. The primary source of the objections to "concentration camp" seem to be coming from people who support their existence, and want a phrase that doesn't remind them what the camps really are.



However, some actors in politics rely on using these distractions, because they last thing they want to do is fix the problem.

That's exactly my point, exactly. That's why indulging in an argument over semantics is like wrestling a pig in the mud. It allows the distraction they want.

 

[Zombie]

That's exactly my point, exactly. That's why indulging in an argument over semantics is like wrestling a pig in the mud. It allows the distraction they want.

I think you are missing that distraction isn't the main reason for this argument. Words matter, and whitewashing what's going on at the border is something that needs to be fought against. And frankly any conversation about this issue is one worth having, as it brings attention to something those in power would love to sweep under the rug.

 

[LogGrad98]

I think you are missing that distraction isn't the main reason for this argument. Words matter, and whitewashing what's going on at the border is something that needs to be fought against. And frankly any conversation about this issue is one worth having, as it brings attention to something those in power would love to sweep under the rug.

I guess we can agree to disagree.

 

[One Brow]

That's exactly my point, exactly. That's why indulging in an argument over semantics is like wrestling a pig in the mud. It allows the distraction they want.

There will always be something else they can create a distraction over.

 

[Archie Moses]

Why would I be triggered by dull, repetitive hate? Did you mean "saddened"?

Yeah, well, Tosh makes me giggle.

I like to live a lil. I understand why he's not for everyone, but don't morally make me feel bad for it. Douche move.

 

[LogGrad98]

There will always be something else they can create a distraction over.

Yes so why indulge them. Need to bypass as many as possible imo.

 

[Zombie]

Yes so why indulge them. Need to bypass as many as possible imo.

I don't think AOC used the term "concentration camp" to indulge a argument over semantics, she used it because it's accurate. Maybe direct your ire towards those who take issue with that (and consider why).

 

[LogGrad98]

I don't think AOC used the term "concentration camp" to indulge a argument over semantics, she used it because it's accurate. Maybe direct your ire towards those who take issue with that (and consider why).

Of course she didn't indulge it, she used it to get a response, which she got. She was tm trying to be inflammatory to get people riled up, which is my point, that it is counterproductive to engage in an argument over semantics, but that's what she started, so that's what she has. My position is that is counterproductive.

 

[Zombie]

Of course she didn't indulge it, she used it to get a response, which she got. She was tm trying to be inflammatory to get people riled up, which is my point, that it is counterproductive to engage in an argument over semantics, but that's what she started, so that's what she has. My position is that is counterproductive.

Right, you assume she was trying to rile people up, rather than simply using a term that accurately describes the situation. Makes sense.

 

[LogGrad98]

Right, you assume she was trying to rile people up, rather than simply using a term that accurately describes the situation. Makes sense.

Why does that make sense? Please tell me my deepest feelings and opinions on AOC? I am going by the Twitter storm alone and if you can't see at least a hint of that intention in her communication you are severely biased to the point of blindness. I know almost nothing about her but that's what her Twitter rant looked like to me, going by that alone.

 

[LogGrad98]

Right, you assume she was trying to rile people up, rather than simply using a term that accurately describes the situation. Makes sense.

As we've discussed there are many terms to accurately describe the situation. She chose that one. Why? You telling me concentration camp is in some way more accurate than detention center, to just pick another one at random? Please give me a thesis on the difference between the two they shows undeniably that concentration camp is the one and only term that accurately describes the situation while detention center does not in any way shape or form.

 

[Zombie]

Why does that make sense? Please tell me my deepest feelings and opinions on AOC? I am going by the Twitter storm alone and if you can't see at least a hint of that intention in her communication you are severely biased to the point of blindness. I know almost nothing about her but that's what her Twitter rant looked like to me, going by that alone.

Sounds like you are letting people reacting in bad faith to her use of the phrase to inform you view of her intentions.

It's really not arguable that the so called detention centers are concentration camps, I get that term makes people feel queasy, but that's not a bad thing. That should be the proper reaction to what is happening.

 

[Zombie]

As we've discussed there are many terms to accurately describe the situation. She chose that one. Why? You telling me concentration camp is in some way more accurate than detention center, to just pick another one at random? Please give me a thesis on the difference between the two they shows undeniably that concentration camp is the one and only term that accurately describes the situation while detention center does not in any way shape or form.

This has been pointed out already but when you are held in "detention" it's generally meant as a punishment for some offense you've committed. This is not the case, many of these people are simply asylum seekers.

Look up the conditions in those camps, specifically the so called "dog pound" and "ice boxes," as well as the separation of children and infants from their parents and then tell me concentration camp isn't an accurate description of what's going on.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Except she's more likely to say things that are true, and is capable of defending her positions.

She says that the US is running Nazi style concentration camps at the southern border and that the world is going to end in 12 years if we don't adopt her Green New Deal. You think this stuff is true?