Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (democratic socialist) wins NY primary

[RJF]

I'm sure people who have no problem with the camps probably feel differently.

I wasn’t referring to the camps. If it were someone on the right, you wouldn’t be OK with it.

 

[Archie Moses]

I'm sure people who have no problem with the camps probably feel differently.

Who are these people you speak of?

I don't think I've seen one person on here or my social media that's in favor for what we have going on or claim it doesn't need an improvement.

 

[Zombie]

I wasn’t referring to the camps. If it were someone on the right, you wouldn’t be OK with it.

If it were someone on the right doing what? Calling the detention centers concentration camps? On the contrary, I'd applaud it. I don't understand what you're doing here?

 

[Zombie]

Who are these people you speak of?

I don't think I've seen one person on here or my social media that's in favor for what we have going on or claim it doesn't need an improvement.

The people running the camps for one, the Trump administration and their supporters as well. I've seen plenty of people online defending these camps as necessary.

 

[One Brow]

I think that many progressive forces are motivated to make the system disorderly and overwhelming.

The progressive forces are not running the immigration system nor the concentration camps.

 

[One Brow]

Can you make an educated guess? My bet would be less than a majority understand the history of concentration camps before the Nazis.

No, I have no education regarding the number of Americans who know know that concentration camps have been around for centuries.

Since you seem to think you do, do you also have an educated guess on the percentage of the followers of the tweets of Ocasio-Cortez who understand this?

 

[One Brow]

That said, I never once claimed that concentration camp "must mean Nazis."

Well, if you are acknowledging a reference to concentration camps is not necessarily a reference to Nazism, than we agree.

What I have said is using the word concentration camp and denying that it implies, is synonymous, or has reference to Nazis concentration camps is cute.

So, a cute truth?

 

[One Brow]

Flip the script and you’d be of the opposite opinion. But, whatever.

I think Ocasio-Cortez is fine on twitter, and I think most Republican Congresspeople are fine on twitter.

 

[Zombie]

Well, if you are acknowledging a reference to concentration camps is not necessarily a reference to Nazism, than we agree.



So, a cute truth?

He seems to by saying that concentration camps don't necessarily correlate to Nazis, but that AOC must have been making that connection for... Reasons.

 

[LogGrad98]

No, I have no education regarding the number of Americans who know know that concentration camps have been around for centuries.

Since you seem to think you do, do you also have an educated guess on the percentage of the followers of the tweets of Ocasio-Cortez who understand this?

So you are just assuming that everyone has the same level of knowledge you do regarding concentration camp history? I don't think I know anything of the sort, I said "educated guess", which is still a guess. You have been dealing with human beings, mostly in an academic capacity from what I know of you, for decades. What is your estimate based on your experience with human beings about their general understanding of history as opposed to recency bias and sensationalism. Do you think it is completely preposterous to think that maybe many people would refer back to the most sensational and recent example they probably know about, which is likely to be the Holocaust. Or is it exactly as likely that most people will instead conjure an idea of concentration camps as used by the British during the second Boer war? Do you know when the term was coined and where it originated? Do you think more Americans have heard of Hitler and the Nazis, or do they just as readily think of general Valeriano Weyler? Off the top of your head do you know where he used concentration camps and what he called them?

I'm not asking you to provide statistically evidence of every person's individual knowledge but when it suits your purposes you are very quick to point out things such as recency bias to explain what people are thinking and why, with great surety, but now you have absolutely no idea what might be a more likely connotation to expect from the general populace? Hmm.

 

[Archie Moses]

He seems to by saying that concentration camps don't necessarily correlate to Nazis, but that AOC must have been making that connection for... Reasons.

Bravo.

You nailed it, dude.

The reasons, at least to me, are pretty obvious. Apparently, not so much for you.

I mean, I could be wrong, but like I've said... If I were betting on whether or not she thought of Nazis or wanted others to think of nazi concentration camps while mentioning ours, I'd take that bet any day of the week. It gave her the chance to bring awareness to what's going on, and completely slam her political opponents while using, to a certain degree, scare tactics and sensationalism. Now, you may think otherwise, and that's fine.

This whole topic got me interested in reading up on the Topaz Mountain Relocation Center and that's some sad ****. I feel embarrassed for how little time I've thought about such a terrible thing that happened in my own state. People can really be the worst, man.

Recently, I've gotten into rock hounding (finding rare, unique and precious stones/rocks.) While reading about the Topaz Relocation Center, I learned this.
"During a rock hunting expedition in the Drum Mountains, 16 miles (26 km) west of Topaz, Akio Uhihera and Yoshio Nishimoto discovered and excavated a 1,164 pounds (528 kg) rare iron meteorite, which the Smithsonian Institution acquired." Utah has some bad *** rocks and stories.

 

[One Brow]

So you are just assuming that everyone has the same level of knowledge you do regarding concentration camp history?

No. Neither do I spend my life worrying that every single phrase I use may be misinterpreted by people who don't know the whole truth. Instead, I stand ready to explain myself those who do not.

I don't think I know anything of the sort, I said "educated guess", which is still a guess. You have been dealing with human beings, mostly in an academic capacity from what I know of you, for decades. What is your estimate based on your experience with human beings about their general understanding of history as opposed to recency bias and sensationalism. Do you think it is completely preposterous to think that maybe many people would refer back to the most sensational and recent example they probably know about, which is likely to be the Holocaust. Or is it exactly as likely that most people will instead conjure an idea of concentration camps as used by the British during the second Boer war? Do you know when the term was coined and where it originated? Do you think more Americans have heard of Hitler and the Nazis, or do they just as readily think of general Valeriano Weyler? Off the top of your head do you know where he used concentration camps and what he called them?

I'm not asking you to provide statistically evidence of every person's individual knowledge but when it suits your purposes you are very quick to point out things such as recency bias to explain what people are thinking and why, with great surety, but now you have absolutely no idea what might be a more likely connotation to expect from the general populace? Hmm.

An educated guess requires some sort of knowledge or understanding of the situation. That's while its different from a random guess. No, I'm not surprised some people reference back to the Holocaust, but we have since seen concentration camps in the Soviet Union, South America, Asia, Europe, etc. since the second world war, I don't see a reason to hold back based on other people's ignorance. If recency bias were in play, there would be no Nazi connotation at all.

I have no interest in continuing this conversation. I'm flopping out.

 

[The Thriller]

Wow...

Nice job boys.

You sure made AOC look dumb and you like totally convinced everyone of her ignorance. The right is certainly going to dominate in 2020.

Until then, what about the kids?

When what a freshmen representative’s tweet trying to bring attention to kids dying in these concentration camps is more important than the actual kids dying, that’s a big problem. What about the kids?

If the issue is about legal immigration, why aren’t we rushing lawyers and judges to process these people faster?

If the issue isn’t about racism, why does this administration worsen the problem and whine about not getting enough immigrants or refugees from Norway?

 

[LogGrad98]

No. Neither do I spend my life worrying that every single phrase I use may be misinterpreted by people who don't know the whole truth. Instead, I stand ready to explain myself those who do not.



An educated guess requires some sort of knowledge or understanding of the situation. That's while its different from a random guess. No, I'm not surprised some people reference back to the Holocaust, but we have since seen concentration camps in the Soviet Union, South America, Asia, Europe, etc. since the second world war, I don't see a reason to hold back based on other people's ignorance. If recency bias were in play, there would be no Nazi connotation at all.

I have no interest in continuing this conversation. I'm flopping out.

Fair enough. I said agree to disagree pages ago

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

The progressive forces are not running the immigration system nor the concentration camps.

True, but go ahead and pretend they have nothing to do with what is going on. If you can't see that progressives are attempting to obstruct and complicate everything that the current administration attempts to do, even when those actions are in alignment with goals that progressives were in support of immediately before this president took office, then you aren't paying attention. I was listening to CNN the other day and heard a hysterical (and illustrative) exchange. Chris Cuomo had been speaking in support of AOC's concentration camp claims. He talked about how embarrassing and reprehensible he found the Trump administration's handling of the situation. He then brought on a conservative guest who immediately said that Obama had deported more illegal immigrants than any president, including Trump. He added that Obama had also detained people, including many children, in chain-link cages. He said that by AOC's standards that Obama was also running concentration camps. Without hardly a pause Cuomo responded, "So you finally admit that Obama was enforcing our laws?" Cuomo literally spun on a dime when the subject turned to Obama. The same activities that are currently embarrassing and reprehensible were then enforcing our laws.

 

[Zombie]

I thought this was an interesting perspective.

 

[One Brow]

True, but go ahead and pretend they have nothing to do with what is going on. If you can't see that progressives are attempting to obstruct and complicate everything that the current administration attempts to do, even when those actions are in alignment with goals that progressives were in support of immediately before this president took office, then you aren't paying attention. ...

I'm not aware that spinning a topic to point out the two-faced nature of particular conservative guest somehow complicates or obstructs the actions of the current administration. Could you lay out that connection for me?

Or, was your point that Obama was treating people badly? Because I knew that well before Trump declared for President, it was all over the skeptical progressive blogs.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I'm not aware that spinning a topic to point out the two-faced nature of particular conservative guest somehow complicates or obstructs the actions of the current administration. Could you lay out that connection for me?

Or, was your point that Obama was treating people badly? Because I knew that well before Trump declared for President, it was all over the skeptical progressive blogs.

Maybe you could explain how what he said was pointing out the two-faced nature of the conservative guest?

And now you're turning on Obama?

 

[Gameface]

I'm not aware that spinning a topic to point out the two-faced nature of particular conservative guest somehow complicates or obstructs the actions of the current administration. Could you lay out that connection for me?

Or, was your point that Obama was treating people badly? Because I knew that well before Trump declared for President, it was all over the skeptical progressive blogs.

Before Trump was elected I was aware of stories of people who had enlisted in the U.S. military as a path to U.S. citizenship (I have served with at least a dozen such people directly) who were deported under Obama policies for minor crimes. Like traffic infractions. It was disgusting and disappointing. These are people who did more for this nation than the majority of U.S. citizens have done. They had their dream taken away from them for almost nothing. Obama was, at the time, one of the most hard core pro-deportation Presidents in U.S. history. And he has been followed by Trump.

Its sad.

There was some mention of ISIS in another thread. Obama is responsible for ISIS. He pulled out of Iraq when everything was finally going right. He abandoned hard fought relationships with local Iraqis and left them hanging in the wind. His withdrawal would have made sense five years earlier, but it was the stupidest possible thing to do when he actually did it. It is the biggest mistake of his Presidency, imho.

I can talk about what Obama did wrong. It is pretty easy, I never voted for the guy. Can Trump voters have an honest conversation about what Trump has done wrong?

 

[One Brow]

Maybe you could explain how what he said was pointing out the two-faced nature of the conservative guest?

By pointing out how conservatives like to simultaneously claim that Obama had open borders and that Obama enforced immigration laws vigorously.

And now you're turning on Obama?

I appreciate that you can't remember the details of the political thoughts of every poster, neither can I. I didn't say anything about Obama in that post that I have not said many times before.

So, you can't make any connection between this exchange and somehow complicating or obstructing the actions of the current administration?