Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (democratic socialist) wins NY primary

[LogGrad98]

It's so interesting how suddenly right-wingers get all PC when they think they can use it to attack someone on the left.

The German camps were uniquely horrifying, because there were not only concentration camps, they were death camps. People were rounded up for the purposes of killing them. Ocasio-Cortez did not, to my knowledge, refer to the concentration camps on our southern border as death camps.

Besides, Hilter's camps were partly inspired by America's long history of concentration camps. Aren't you proud we are continuing our venerable traditions? [/sarcasm]

I think very few ordinary citizens will draw any kind of meaningful distinction between concentration camps and death camps.

 

[One Brow]

I think very few ordinary citizens will draw any kind of meaningful distinction between concentration camps and death camps.

I have not heard a better term being offered as a replacement. Do you think gulag would be better? Usually, that implies people are being punished, so I think it is worse.

 

[LogGrad98]

I have not heard a better term being offered as a replacement. Do you think gulag would be better? Usually, that implies people are being punished, so I think it is worse.

I'm just saying that context matters, and in the context most people would identity with concentration camps what they are doing does not fit that context.

Don't get me wrong, it's still entirely unacceptable. But it doesn't make it better to over-sensationalize the situation by effectively Godwinning it. In fact that is a great way to stifle progress on resolving the issue due to shifting the focus away from the current reality and toward attacking and defending positions based on semantics and managing public opinion.

 

[One Brow]

I'm just saying that context matters, and in the context most people would identity with concentration camps what they are doing does not fit that context.

Don't get me wrong, it's still entirely unacceptable. But it doesn't make it better to over-sensationalize the situation by effectively Godwinning it.

I agree context matters. How do we avoid this context and still highlight the wrongness of the situation?

I suppose we disagree on whether "concentration camp" is Godwinning what happened to Native Americans in the 19th century, the Japanese in the 20th, or immigrants in the 21st. Really, unless you have a better term for such creations, how do we avoid the term?

 

[Archie Moses]

It was silly, stupid, and dull. Was that supposed to trigger me?

Exactly, it's silly and stupid.

I hope it doesn't trigger people. Sadly, it does.

 

[Zombie]

The swastika has history that predates the Nazis by centuries. You want one on a flag flying over your house right about now?

Of course not. I'm not sure what point you're making here.

 

[LogGrad98]

I agree context matters. How do we avoid this context and still highlight the wrongness of the situation?

I suppose we disagree on whether "concentration camp" is Godwinning what happened to Native Americans in the 19th century, the Japanese in the 20th, or immigrants in the 21st. Really, unless you have a better term for such creations, how do we avoid the term?

Don't put words in my mouth either. When did I make a blanket statement about any past such situations in our country?

 

[One Brow]

Don't put words in my mouth either. When did I make a blanket statement about any past such situations in our country?

I can't see why either the first two would not be "Godwinning" while the third is. So, while I did not intend to say you supported a comparison you did not support, I inferred that from the context. What do you see as the significant differences?

 

[LogGrad98]

Here is an example of why I think the narrative matters. This article is a good description of how this can devolve into a fight over ideologies rather than a productive discussion on how to remedy the situation.

https://www.newsweek.com/alexandria...ps-migrants-southern-border-academics-1444953

And I think detention center or something similar is descriptive enough without being distracting from discourse.

I see this at work a lot where people who have an axe to grind are happy to fight over semantics rather than address the issue itself. It's aggravating to see so much time wasted on that kind of an argument. I usually cut right through it and bring everyone back to topic so that experience is probably bleeding over into my take on this situation.

 

[Zombie]

I see this is a clever bit of misdirection, those on the right who are crowing about this are trying to make the conversation about semantics as way to minimize the horror of these camps. Dressing them up in PC terms like "detention centers" doesn't really portray the horror of what we're doing to these people. How are we supposed to solve this problem if we aren't even willing to correctly identify it?

 

[LogGrad98]

I see this is a clever bit of misdirection, those on the right who are crowing about this are trying to make the conversation about semantics as way to minimize the horror of these camps. Dressing them up in PC terms like "detention centers" doesn't really portray the horror of what we're doing to these people. How are we supposed to solve this problem if we aren't even willing to correctly identify it?

If what you want is a fight over what name to use, you've got it. Notice while they are fighting over what to call it they can conveniently avoid any discussion on how to fix it. It's exactly what those who support the camps/centers want. But by all means, let's spend months and months fighting over what to call it and then call victory when someone finally says your word from the other side.

 

[Zombie]

If what you want is a fight over what name to use, you've got it. Notice while they are fighting over what to call it they can conveniently avoid any discussion on how to fix it. It's exactly what those who support the camps/centers want. But by all means, let's spend months and months fighting over what to call it and then call victory when someone finally says your word from the other side.

I believe they are fighting about what to call them because calling them something they are not minimizes their severity. People don't necessarily believe we need to take action to stop "detention centers," I don't think anyone is comfortable with us running concentration camps. Like I said, before we can have a meaningful conversation about stopping the practice we need to accurately identify its seriousness.