Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (democratic socialist) wins NY primary

[One Brow]

Cuz it's fun to crow. Come correct next time.

I shouldn't follow your example?

Again, I'll let the audience decide whether the confounds of senate vs. congress with respect to barriers to being elected are equal. If they are, I'm curious to hear your hypothesis on why there are currently more female senators in the United States than there have been black senators in all of American history (even when you control for population size, the discrepancy is palpable).

I don't know that they are equal, but I do know until you can remove inherited wealth (and other benefits) from the situation, you can't really compare the effects due to racism/sexism. As I'm sure you're aware, even when barriers are lowered, the historical effects persist for generations. Perhaps you have not considered that these historical effects fall harder on oppressed groups who don't have family members in the favored classes, or the degree to which this is an effect.

One example where white women face greater effects of discrimination is public-sector wages. At least one study has found black men's wages, when accounting for differences in education, etc., comparable to white men's, while women still show unexplained gaps. Now, racism does play into getting those qualifications in the first place, but you only asked for one area.

The association between average occupational earnings and within-occupation racial disadvantage reveals a much overlooked source of racial earnings inequality which constrains the opportunities available to upwardly mobile black men in the private sector. This association cannot be explained by measured individual characteristics, nor by the status, demographic composition, or skill demands characteristics of occupations. In the public sector, on the other hand, racial earnings inequality is not systematically associated with average occupational earnings, and is instead more closely tied to individual human capital and occupational placement. We consider the implications of our results and suggest directions for future research.

https://www.ssc.wisc.edu/cde/cdewp/99-28.pdf

https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/_...f-8232fe70a45c/compendium---sans-appendix.pdf

In fact, here's a challenge-- I challenge you to find social metrics/outcomes where white women fare worse than black people (or black men, whatever makes this comparison easier for you).

I doubt there is any metric where black women would be fare better than white women.

One example where white women face greater effects of discrimination than black men is public-sector wages. At least one study has found black men's wages, when accounting for differences in education, etc., comparable to white men's, while women still show unexplained gaps. Now, racism does play into getting those qualifications in the first, but even them it seems, compared to what white men earn in the public sector, white women are at 1-2% lower than black men overall.

I have not checked into military service specifically, but in that and similar testoserone-fueled environments (sports?), I would be surprised if you didn't find black men ahead of white women.

Even before I get into the mechanism and the historical mechanisms of oppression that black people have faced and continue to face,

You think I am not aware of them?

Here's a compilation of some in context of the workplace-- http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ge-gaps-persist-in-u-s-despite-some-progress/

On that very page, black men with a bachelor's degree (or more) are equal in wage to white women with a bachelor's (or more), and my first inclination would be that more of the women have advanced degrees.

Or, use these interactive charts to see which strata of SES black boys vs. white girls fid themselves in
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/27/upshot/make-your-own-mobility-animation.html

OK. Black men born poor are more likely to be rich, or to stay poor.

The thesis of this is that race is the central social reality of the United States, pure and simple.

For a black, educated, cis-genered, heterosexual, abled man (such as the author), race is indeed the central social reality of society.

The idea is a good one-- because it is 1elieved (and I'd agree) that oppression must be fought on every axis in order to be able to defeat white supremacy, or the patriarchy, or heteronormativity.

The problem with this, is that white feminism (historically a tool of oppression against black people) weaponizes this to the extent where white women have made gains since the 60s, whereas black men and women haven't.

This would have been more correct if you said neither group has made substantial progress since the late 1970s.

The proof is in the pudding-- of all dimensions of oppression, if you look at the outcomes seen in some of the links I've posted, groups of people where which white people compose a majority (white women, white LG communities) have generally made the most progress.

The effects of wealth are sufficient to explain this.

I think I've provided enough information for you to glean that oppression rooted in race is stronger than oppression rooted in gender.

We often see strong evidence for what we believe. However, the confounding of historical wealth inequalities and the intersection of wealth on both groups makes this connection open to question.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

As for "this is just how humanity is" comment; the US is the only developed country that is continuously engaged in war. Arm and train the mujahideen in Afghanistan, then engage them in a decades long war. Destabilize Iraq in the name of democracy, then spend a couple of decades fighting the Islamists that filled the void. Over and over.

And how do you suppose the world would be any different with an American drawdown that no longer keeps the peace the best it can? We would leave the world with a power vacuum the likes that have never been seen.

Russian influence would undoubtedly grow and spread to our allies' borders. Chinese expansion would go hand in hand. The Middle East would align. Aside from logistics, this is where our bases are placed to wall off spread of non-democratic nations. Democracy would weaken worldwide and tension would build to another world war. We'd have already been there without our absurd military spending.

Our options are limited to NATO replacement, giving up influence, and the absurd idea of isolationism. If anyone thinks military spending is costly just wait for the pricetag of removing co-dependence economically. We have to be willing to pay the price. America is already in fits over these tiny Trump tariffs. Extend that out to what would be necessary when we can't afford to empower the enemy by trading with them. Combine at home costs with the worldwide arms race that would ensue and living standards would plummet.

I'm willing to pay the price but doubt America as a whole is.

Also, in before babe or someone tries claiming America is traditionally isolationist since the founding. Utter nonsense, even following WWI.

 

[Deleted member 848]

I shouldn't follow your example?

If you followed my example, you'd come correct. Speaking of which-- it's my turn now. And this is gonna be fun.

I don't know that they are equal, but I do know until you can remove inherited wealth (and other benefits) from the situation, you can't really compare the effects due to racism/sexism. As I'm sure you're aware, even when barriers are lowered, the historical effects persist for generations. Perhaps you have not considered that these historical effects fall harder on oppressed groups who don't have family members in the favored classes, or the degree to which this is an effect.

A whole lot of words that do nothing to advance the argument that women are more oppressed than black people.

One example where white women face greater effects of discrimination is public-sector wages. At least one study has found black men's wages, when accounting for differences in education, etc., comparable to white men's, while women still show unexplained gaps. Now, racism does play into getting those qualifications in the first place, but you only asked for one area.

https://www.ssc.wisc.edu/cde/cdewp/99-28.pdf

https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/_...f-8232fe70a45c/compendium---sans-appendix.pdf

I doubt there is any metric where black women would be fare better than white women.

One example where white women face greater effects of discrimination than black men is public-sector wages. At least one study has found black men's wages, when accounting for differences in education, etc., comparable to white men's, while women still show unexplained gaps. Now, racism does play into getting those qualifications in the first, but even them it seems, compared to what white men earn in the public sector, white women are at 1-2% lower than black men overall.

I have not checked into military service specifically, but in that and similar testoserone-fueled environments (sports?), I would be surprised if you didn't find black men ahead of white women.

This is where it gets fun-- it's quite curious that you've chosen two studies that haven't looked at what has happened to public sector work since the Great Recession-- and who the brunt of employee termination/unemployment has fallen on more between black men and white women.

I'll save you the work-- here's a press release and a couple articles:

http://www.washington.edu/news/2015...ctor-job-losses-during-recession-study-finds/

https://digital.lib.washington.edu/...6/Laird_washington_0250E_15998.pdf?sequence=1 (this one was some great images/graphs in Chapter 3).

My results point to a post-recession double disadvantage for black public sector workers: they are concentrated in a shrinking sector of the economy, and they are more likely than white and Hispanic public sector workers to experience job loss. These two trends are a historical break for the public sector labor market. I find that race and ethnicity gaps in public sector employment cannot be explained by differences in education, occupation, or any of the other measurable factors that are typically associated with employment.

On that very page, black men with a bachelor's degree (or more) are equal in wage to white women with a bachelor's (or more), and my first inclnation would be that more of the women have advanced degrees.

You realize that if they are "equal" (you're fibbing the numbers here), that it doesn't exactly advance your argument. You're aware of this, correct?

For a black, educated, cis-genered, heterosexual, abled man (such as the author), race is indeed the central social reality of society.

For a white dude like you, the oppression of white women seems more steep. I'll make sure to discredit all of your input in this thread based on your identity, just like you did with this author.

 

[Stoked]

Lmfao @dalamon and @One Brow trying to out do one another.

 

[Gameface]

Y'all lost me at multi-quote

 

[Stoked]

Y'all lost me at multi-quote

I’m still lmfao at “come correct”.

Gold. Lol

 

[Gameface]

I’m still lmfao at “come correct”.

Gold. Lol

Yeah, this has been a classic battle on jazzfanz GD, ally vs ally

 

[One Brow]

If you followed my example, you'd come correct.

You came incorrect starting with your third sentence.

A whole lot of words that do nothing to advance the argument that women are more oppressed than black people.

Very few words attributing an argument that I did not make.

"As for whether a woman suffers more from prejudice than a black person, that's at least partly situation-dependent, like any type of privilege."

"I don't know that they are equal, but I do know until you can remove inherited wealth (and other benefits) from the situation, you can't really compare the effects due to racism/sexism."

A claim of situation dependence (with which you agreed), and a disavowal of whether it can be known at all.

This is where it gets fun-- it's quite curious that you've chosen two studies that haven't looked at what has happened to public sector work since the Great Recession-- and who the brunt of employee termination/unemployment has fallen on more between black men and white women.

So, so seek to prove a generality by finding a more specific exception to a counter-example? Why bother if you can't do better than that.

You realize that if they are "equal" (you're fibbing the numbers here), that it doesn't exactly advance your argument. You're aware of this, correct?

The only numbers I offered where directly in the image, and as for equal, is that decided by mean, median, or mode?

For a white dude like you, the oppression of white women seems more steep.

If you are going to tell me my opinion, could you try to do it accurately?

I'll make sure to discredit all of your input in this thread based on your identity, just like you did with this author.

If I held the opinion you stated, you would be justified in calling my identity into question while so doing. In fact, you should take that into account when considering my opinion, regardless. On the other hand, if you did not deny being an educated, cis-genered, heterosexual, abled man, as well as black, had an effect on the author's opinion regarding the degree of the centrality of race.

Perhaps you could have fun while engaging in the position I have actually put forth?

 

[One Brow]

Lmfao @dalamon and @One Brow trying to out do one another.

Young lions need to challenge it the old. Part of nature.

 

[Stoked]

I’ve been thinking about the America v world war. Tbh I think we’d hold out indefinitely. And conquer Canada. Possibly Cuba.

We have vast amounts of agriculturally good terrain, lumber, coal, natural gas, water, satellites, metals...

If we could just prevent upper atmosphere EMPs from going off...

Ya, I know I just went full tin foil.

But I drink a lot now and suddenly have to much lonely time on my hands.

 

[fishonjazz]

Y'all lost me at multi-quote

lol. This

 

[Stoked]

Young lions need to challenge it the old. Part of nature.

More like old and young Chihuahuas.

Lions...lmfao.