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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (democratic socialist) wins NY primary

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dalamon said:
Here's my problem with a statement like this one-- you can spin it in another direction (as right wing people often do) in order to obscure the impact of privilege.
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I agree that this is a concern. However, I doubt the long-term utility of bringing in gross generalizations to avoid the spin. These generalizations are subject to other sorts of spin, and are more easily disputed by counter-examples.

dalamon said:
The macro is an attempt to integrate all of the situations of positve vs. negative biases, to attempt and provide a commentary on the lived life of that marginalized community in the United States. On the macro level, the life of a black man is at a larger disadvantage than one of a white woman -- this is my opinion.
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I have no objection to you holding this opinion, it could well be true. Last I heard though, your opinion is not "a point that's as commonly understood and accepted as human-fueled climate change." In particular, I'm not sure how you disentangle the effects of wealth and the privileges of wealth from white women (who have greater ties to the wealthy) vs. black men. I didn't see you make any effort there.

Further, I'm not sure how useful such a claim is. What matters is not who faces more oppression, but the oppression that any individual faces.

dalamon said:
On this macro level (but also applicable in the micro level), I said that "Barack Hussein Obama was more underprivileged than Hillary Clinton" for a political race, and that there's macro-level academic evidence behind it (in fact, there's probably political race evidence behind this too).
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I don't recall any of your links being "for a political race" generally, much less a national political race in particular.

dalamon said:
I've posted some, you've attempted to discredit it. You tried posting one example of a sector favouring black men over women, I then pointed out how that was actually incorrect when you dig deeper.
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Finding one unfavorable facet of an overall favorable situation does not mean the overall situation is now unfavorable. If you really wanted to "dig deeper", that would have required looking not just at job losses, but at re-hires, promotions, raises, etc., compared to qualifications, seniority, etc.

dalamon said:
I have nothing more to say on the matter, i'm retiring from this conversation on this thread (let's go back to talking about AOC). Let the people decide what their stance is on this issue.
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People will decide, regardless. :)
 
dalamon said:
Here's my problem with a statement like this one-- you can spin it in another direction (as right wing people often do) in order to obscure the impact of privilege.

Of course, there are swaths of micro (as opposed to macro) situations where socially-constructed stereotypes and folkways will slant 'positive' bias towards a group that might even be more marginalized (choosing who to hire based on perceived 'laziness', choosing athletes for your sports team, etc.). The macro is an attempt to integrate all of the situations of positve vs. negative biases, to attempt and provide a commentary on the lived life of that marginalized community in the United States. On the macro level, the life of a black man is at a larger disadvantage than one of a white woman -- this is my opinion.

On this macro level (but also applicable in the micro level), I said that "Barack Hussein Obama was more underprivileged than Hillary Clinton" for a political race, and that there's macro-level academic evidence behind it (in fact, there's probably political race evidence behind this too). I've posted some, you've attempted to discredit it. You tried posting one example of a sector favouring black men over women, I then pointed out how that was actually incorrect when you dig deeper. I have nothing more to say on the matter, i'm retiring from this conversation on this thread (let's go back to talking about AOC). Let the people decide what their stance is on this issue.
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I'm just a heartless right-winger so I'm sure my opinion won't matter too much to either of you, but the way I see it the world is that it's not fair and never will be. Not even close! Despite that, there are many examples of people from the most difficult of origins who find a way to the top, and of people from the most privileged origins who find their way to the bottom. Even more than that, I know many stories of people who have a lot of money and no happiness, and even more of people who have very little money but a lot of happiness. Can we measure the average happiness of these different groups you are defining? If we found disparities do you think we should impose government programs to equalize them?
 
Siro said:
That's one of the Israel lobby's biggest accomplishments in the US. Equating criticism of a government's behavior with racism. Just genius.
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This is not just a "Israeli government" tactic. It happens here all the time too. Criticism of platform or agenda or topic = racism.
The only thing that makes the tactic good vs bad seems to be what you are behind in many cases.
How you push your message should be just as important as your message.

tldr - It's not just Israel's government doing this.
 
dalamon said:
Archie, do you realize we can all list a dozen democratically socialist countries who all exhibit much better quality of life in every metric you could conjure than the united states. if you're gonna respond with "BUT THEY'RE SMALL COUNTRIES", ask yourself if you've ever considered the population of Venezuela, and why the answer is no, and what impact those you've read have had on the myopia that one then develops.

Afterwards, read Edward Said. I'm logging out for the day.
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Are you using Venequela as a positive example of democratic socialism? I'm really trying to follow this, and your post is not clear to me.
 
Jazz Spazz said:
Are you using Venequela as a positive example of democratic socialism? I'm really trying to follow this, and your post is not clear to me.
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He is saying that the population of Venezuela is not incomparable to that of Germany and similar countries where a slightly more socialistic system has gone hand-in-hand with a better quality of life.
 
One Brow said:
He is saying that the population of Venezuela is not incomparable to that of Germany and similar countries where a slightly more socialistic system has gone hand-in-hand with a better quality of life.
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You two seem to disagree enough right now that I'll wait for him to clarify what he was saying, even if you turn out to be right.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
I'm just a heartless right-winger so I'm sure my opinion won't matter too much to either of you, but the way I see it the world is that it's not fair and never will be. Not even close! Despite that, there are many examples of people from the most difficult of origins who find a way to the top, and of people from the most privileged origins who find their way to the bottom. Even more than that, I know many stories of people who have a lot of money and no happiness, and even more of people who have very little money but a lot of happiness. Can we measure the average happiness of these different groups you are defining? If we found disparities do you think we should impose government programs to equalize them?
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Progressive people want equity, not the imposing of equal outcomes. Google equity if you’re unfamiliar with the concept
 
Jazz Spazz said:
You two seem to disagree enough right now that I'll wait for him to clarify what he was saying, even if you turn out to be right.
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One Brow correctly characterized my intention with my post. I have nothing further to add.
 
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