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All-Time Draft 2nd round: JoelHodgeJr vs Ellis269

Who would win in a 7 game series?

  • Total voters
    37
  • Poll closed .
spycam1

spycam1

Well-Known Member
Team JoelHodgeJr:

PG - Oscar Robertson / Kevin Johnson / Muggsy Bogues
SG - Michael Jordan / Alan Houston
SF - Andrei Kirilenko / Glen Rice / Bruce Bowen
PF - Blake Griffin / Pau Gasol /
C - Yao Ming / Marcus Camby

Team Ellis269:

PG - Magic Johnson / Damian Lilliard
SG - Pete Maravich / Earl Monroe / Sidney Moncrief
SF - Dominique Wilkins / Kawhi Leonard / Dave DeBusschere
PF - Moses Malone / George Mikan
C - Patrick Ewing / Nate Thurmond



Joel's case:

N/A



Ellis269's case:

Starting Lineup

PG: Earvin "Magic" Johnson
SG: "Pistol Pete" Maravich
SF: Dominique "Human Highlight Film" Wilkins
PF: Moses "Chairman of the Boards" Malone
C: Patrick Ewing

6th Man
SF/SG: Kawhi Leonard

Bench
PG: Damian Lillard
SG: Earl "The Pearl" Monroe
SG: Sydney "Sid the Squid" Moncrief
SF: Dave "Big D" DeBusschere
PF: George "Mr. Basketball" Mikan
C/PF: Nate "the Great" Thurmond

My biggest concern with Joel's lineup was always going to be that backcourt duo of Michael Jordan and Oscar Robertson. I have to admit that I like them as a pair. . . BUT. . . I can still beat them. Here's how. . .

When looking at the Jordan/Robertson duo, you wouldn't think that Dominique Wilkins and Pistol Pete Maravich would put up much of a fight, but you'd be dead wrong. When you break down their numbers in head to head matchups, Jordan/Robertson and Wilkins/Maravich were almost dead even in scoring. Head to head, Michael Jordan scored 31.6 points per game, while Dominique Wilkins scored 29.8 points per game. A difference of only one basket. I was expecting a bigger disparity than that. Nope. And in their head to head matchups, Pistol Pete Maravich outscored Oscar Robertson 19.3 points per game to 16.3 points per game. Combine all of their head to head matchups, the Jordan/Robertson combo scored 28.1 points per game compared to 27.5 points per game by the Wilkins/Maravich combo. A difference of 0.6 points per game. That's all. . .

So, if Dominique Wilkins and Pete Maravich essentially negate the contributions of Jordan and Robertson, what's left? Me personally, I take Magic Johnson, Moses Malone and Patrick Ewing over AK47/Glen Rice, Blake Griffin and Yao Ming any day of the week. . .

Yao Ming's best year numbers (06/07) - 25 points per game, 2.0 blocks per game, 2.0 assists per game and .04 steals per game.
Patrick Ewing's best year numbers (89/90) - 28.6 points per game, 4.0 blocks per game, 2.2 assists per game and 1.0 steals per game.
Patrick Ewing's career averages are simply better across the board. . . 21.0 vs 19.0 points per game, 2.4 vs. 1.9 blocks per game, 1.9 vs. 1.6 assists per game and 9.8 vs. 9.2 rebounds per game.

Magic averaged 19.5 points per game and 11.2 assists per game over his career compared to Glen Rice (18.3 ppg and 2.1 apg) and/or Andrei Kirilenko (11.9 ppg and 2.1 apg.) Even as a pass first point guard, Magic Johnson put up better numbers than both of those guys. . . who should have had better scoring numbers than he did based solely on positional value.

And then there's the most interesting matchup between Moses Malone and Blake Griffin. . . Moses Malone averaged 20.3 points per game over his illustriuous hall of fame career, with a high of 31.1 points per game in 81/82, while Blake Griffin has averaged 21.4 points per game with a high of 24.1 this past season. Moses Malone leads him in total rebounds 12.3 per game vs. 10.1 per game, but really dominates him on the offensive glass at a clip of 5.1 per game vs. 2.8 per game.

As far as the bench goes, I think that Nate Thurmond, Kawhi Leonard, Steve DeBusschere, Earl Monroe, Sydney Moncreif, Damian Lillard and George Mikan are a much better and more versatile group than Kevin Johnson, Muggsy Bogues, Alan Rice, Bruce Bowen, Pau Gasol and Marcus Camby.

Oscar Robertson and Michael Jordan are a pretty nice pairing in the backcourt, but I think that I just have the stronger team overall - in terms of starters and depth players.

Again, I think that I put together a really incredible team that can pass, shoot, slash, dunk, rebound, play defense and run in transition. I think that my team would have had great chemistry and been a lot of fun to watch play together. They are a collection of some of the most creative players in league history with Magic Johnson, Pistol Pete, Earl Monroe and Dominique Wilkins. . . just imagine them all together. . .

[video=youtube_share;FNVYYUywsHE]https://youtu.be/FNVYYUywsHE
 
I'm going to wait a little bit before I vote and think this over.

If Joel had started Rice, I might have voted for him.

If Ellis didn't have Kahwi as his 6th man, I might have voted for him.
 
White Chocolate said:
I'm going to wait a little bit before I vote and think this over.

If Joel had started Rice, I might have voted for him.

If Ellis didn't have Kahwi as his 6th man, I might have voted for him.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly.

Who knows? Maybe Joel meant to start Rice, but he never clarified that...
 
I don't like ellis bench

this one goes to hodge
 
I'm sorry that I have been gone. My phone completely broke and I don't own a computer. Im borrowing my friends computer just to get on here for the draft playoffs. Now for the write up.

My team is not built on who the best player was available at the time I selected them expect of course when I picked Jordan at #1. Its built on real team basketball. Also basketball is initiated by the back court both on offense and defense. That is why I wanted to make sure that I had the strongest back court that I possibly could. "The game starts through the guards and ends through the basket."

Oscar Robertson PG(starting), SG, SF:

Oscar starts off at the point for me. There has never been a more well rounded and complete player in the history of basketball. The man averaged a triple double in a season. I really liked him paired with Michael Jordan because both can do it all. Great defenders with the ability to make a play for themselves or set up a teammate. This pairing is the heart of the team and would be on the court together as much as possible. Oscar also plays the SG and could play the SF position as well. At 6'5" and 220lbs his size and athleticism would be a huge problem for anyone not named Magic Johnson or Penny Hardaway. Even then I imagine he wouldn't be hampered to badly anyway. No way around it Oscar is one of the top 5 players to ever step on a basketball court.


Michael Jordan SG(starting), SF:

Do I really need describe what Jordan's role and ability's are? He's the best player to ever play hand down no arguments. He gets what he wants when he wants and no one would ever stop him. Even with this flu this man is far to much for anyone to handle. On offense you can not stop him, and the man that is setting him up is Oscar freaking Robertson. On defense Jordan is arguably the best defender in the game at the SG position. He was the bulls offense and was all that was needed. His role is the same here but with a cast around him that does not need to ball to succeed and is suited to play with him.

Andrei Kirilenko SF(Starting), PF:

Many of you wonder why I picked Andrei. Although I am a fan its for a reason. First off you need to keep in mind that we choose these players with the idea that their best season would represent them. AK's best season was one for the record books. He recorded three 5x5's in one season. No one else in the history of basketball other then Hakeam has more the one total. That's not just good its historical.
Andrei is mobile defense and an extraordinary help defender. That is important on my team because it hides Yao's main weakness: Mobility. AK will fly around the court like an annoying wasp, throwing his needle like arms in to passing lanes, blocking shot from behind and on fast breaks. He's not going to have plays set up for him on offense because this team contains MJ and Oscar. Andrei is also an underrated and willing passer which helps when you have the two all ready stated players on the court with you.
One knock on AK is he gambles too much. That is why I have Bruce Bowen to take over when a more dangerous 1vs1 match up occurs like LBJ or DR J. If I need to spread the court to counter players like Hakeam or Dikembe then I simply slide G-Money in to the fold, but I like what AK gives given MJ and Oscar are there to make up for his weakness's.
 
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Blake Griffin PF:

Blake is a bull in a china shop with a big hemi sized motor. He has developed a really nice 18ft jump shot and can already jump over oh r through any one in the current NBA. His athleticism is already historic and he's really only now learning how to play. He would benefit the most by playing with MJ Design and Mr Robby. Whether its catching lobs, getting ball cutting through the lane or getting an open middy blake compliments my back court.

Yao Ming C:
7'6" and can shoot and pass very well. He can look over opposing player to see the open man or just shoot the middy over them. His back to the basket game is also stellar. With an array of hooks, up and unders and quick turn arounds Yao's offensive game is very solid. On defense I choose to go with Andrei to hide Yao's lack of mobility and if need be I choose Marcus Camby to come off the bench as my defensive big. Now imagine If I decided to place Pau Gasol or Camby next to Yao is the front court. Talk about twin towers.

Basketball is a game of three things: Height, Skills and cordination. Yao has all those and plenty more to spare. With MJ and Oscar setting him up and pulling the pressure off him Yao is not only a threat but a city leveling weapon of mass destruction.
 
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Bench Highlights:

Pau Gasol PF, C: Pau has a guards skill set and mentality in a 7' frame. This works wonders for my on this team because my entire offensive is built around the pairing of Michael Jordan and Oscar Robinson. I love the idea of Pau on the corner of the key and those two slashing all around him. The possibilities are endless.

Glen (G-Money) Rice SF: Glen is one of the best shooters of all time. He stretches the floor for me and can hit the clutch 3. If I want defense I have it in spades with AK47 and Bruce Bowen. Elite shooting is something that every team needs and G-Money is one of the top five all time.

Alan Houston SG, SF: See Glen Rice. With MJ on the team Alan would not see much playing time but when he does his shooting ability from any where on the court and ease at creating his own shot is invaluable.

Marcus Camby C, PF: Marcus Camby is defense. That is all he cared about and Is all I want from him. He can hang with any of the best defending bigs of all time and that is saying something.

Bruce Bowen SF: Bruce is one of the best man to man defenders of all time. His defense on Kobe is well documented and SA would not have the rings that hey do without Mr Bowen. He can gaurd the 1,2,3 and do it with the best of all time. One of my best picks if I do say so my self.

Muggsy Bouges PG: Muggsy doesnt make mistakes. His Ast/TO is the best of all time. He completely negates all time greates like Gary Payton because he will always make the right play and never gets ratteled. Not to mention his main options are MJ, Oscar, Yao and Griffin. Super underrated and is one of the best pure PG's of all time.
 
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Not every player on a team needs to score 20pts and grab 10 rebounds. There are only so mmany shot to take and only so many rebounds to catch. I built this team to support my best players not have the 12 best players ever. I believe I have balanced offense, defense and chemistry very well. If this team was real everyone on the team would know and except there roles and that is what I team is all about; Unity.

Oh BTW my starting line up to counter his front court offensive presence is:

Pg: Oscar Robertson
Sg: Michael Jordan
Sf: Andrei Kirilenko ((Need G-Moneys offense off the bench guys)Would also play some PF in this match up))
Pf: Marcus Camby
C: Yao Ming

6th Man: Blake Griffin (Would tear through George Mikan like a wet tissue)

Key Reserves: Pau Gasol (PF,C), Glen Rice(SF), Bruce Bowen(SF,SG), Alan Houston(SG,SF), Muggsy Bouges(PG (very pesky for Magic to chase around and since Magic cant shoot the outside shot Muggsy can guard him nicely on the perimeter.))
 
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Thee jazz fan said:
I agree with the exception to the bold part. Magic may be the better pg, but Oscar is the better well rounded player, and think he brings more to a team.
Click to expand...

Magic was equally, if not more well-rounded than Oscar. In the 1980 Finals, Johnson recorded 42 points, 15 rebounds, 7 assists, and 3 steals in a 123–107 win, while playing guard, forward, and center at different times during the game. Magic is a Top 3 Player of all-time and probably would have won a 6th title had he not had to retire early.
 
Jeffrey32 said:
Magic was equally, if not more well-rounded than Oscar. In the 1980 Finals, Johnson recorded 42 points, 15 rebounds, 7 assists, and 3 steals in a 123–107 win, while playing guard, forward, and center at different times during the game. Magic is a Top 3 Player of all-time and probably would have won a 6th title had he not had to retire early.
Click to expand...

Much of the same could be said for Robinson with exception to his height not allowing him to play all 5 positions, and that stat line you posted was a regularity for Him more so then Magic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The fact that Ellis is losing because Joel has MJ and Oscar is ludicrous to me. Kirilenko absolutely sucks in the scheme of things (this draft) and Yao would get destroyed by Ewing in his prime.
 
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