All-Time Draft 2nd round: Spycam1 vs White Chocolate

[spycam1]

Team Spycam1:

PG - Isiah Thomas / Chauncey Billups
SG - Clyde Drexler / Tracy McGrady / Rip Hamilton
SF - Paul Pierce / Ron Artest
PF - Dirk Nowitzki / Kevin McHale
C - Shaquille O'Neal / Amar'e Stoudemire / Marc Gasol

Team White Chocolate:

PG - John Stockton / Anfernee Hardaway / Tim Hardaway
SG - Mitch Richmond / Latrell Sprewell
SF - Chris Mullin / Detlef Schrempf / Glenn Robinson
PF - Karl Malone / Larry Johnson
C - Alonzo Mourning / Bill Laimbeer



Spy's case:

Starters

Thoams < Stockton
Drexler >>> Richmond
Pierce > Mullin
Dirk < Malone
Shaq >>> Zo

First off Pierce and Mullin are pretty even, but I give the slight edge to Pierce (and I think WC would agree with me).

Then I'm better at 2 positions (C and SG), and WC is better at 2 (PG and PF). However, the amount that my guys are better is much larger. In other words, the difference between Saq/Drexler and Zo/Richmond is MUCH bigger than the difference between Stockton/Malone and Thomas/Dirk.

So it becomes something more like

Thomas + Drexler > Stockton + Richmond
Dirk + Shaq > Malone + Zo

Bench

Billups = Penny
McGrady > Sprewell
Artest < Schrempf
McHale > Jonhson
Stoudemire < Laimbeer

Penny's best statistical seasons really aren't much better than Billups'. Don't underestimate the type of impact Billups has on the game. He's a true floor general and leader. That Denver team took the next step step when they traded Iverson for Billups. He and Penny have totally different styles, but I'll call it fairly even.

Much like with the starter's, the difference between the positions I'm better at is much greater. The difference between T-Mac/McHale and Sprewell/Johnson is much bigger than the difference between Schrempf/Laimbeer and Artest/Stoudemire. And I think Artest/Stoudemire could neutralize those two anyway.

Overall

WC has a good team. But I don't think he has quite the same fire power to hang with my team.

My team's offense is too potent.

Nobody can guard Shaq one-on-one. But against my team your choice is either do that, or leave Dirk wide open.

 

[spycam1]

WC's case:

White Chocolate's 1990's Team​

My write up for this matchup:

I would like to start out by looking at the match-ups.

John Stockton vs. Isiah Thomas

This is pretty close, but Stockton wins here. Stockton is a top-3 point guard of all-time and Thomas is a top-5 point guard of all-time. Stockton holds the record for most assists and most steals of all-time. Stockton also has the highest average of assists per game over one season ever with 14.5. Stockton and Thomas are two of three players along with Kevin Porter who have logged more than 1,000 assists in one season. Stockton did this seven times and Thomas did it once. I give respect where respect is due, Thomas was a great player, but Stockton was just better. Lastly, Stockton has made 5 All-NBA Defensive Teams and Thomas made 0.

Mitch Richmond vs. Clyde Drexler

Another close one, but Drexler wins here. Richmond is a top-15 shooting guard of all-time and Drexler is a top-7 shooting guard of all-time. Richmond isn't a slouch on defense as Jordan once said he was one of the best defenders he has ever faced. Drexler is just the better player and I admit that. Richmond would be able to back Drexler down and score on him and he is a good enough defender to keep Drexler from scoring a lot. Richmond did average 20+ PPG for 10 straight seasons and the 11th season he averaged 19.7 PPG, fwiw.

Chris Mullin vs. Paul Pierce

Again, as the previous two matchups, this one is close as well. It's probably the closest out of all of them, but Mullin gets the slight nod here. Mullin was on the All-NBA First Team in 1992 and Pierce has never made one. Mullin and LeBron are the only two small forwards in the last 25 years to average 25+ PPG and shoot over 50% from the field in the same season. Pierce is a clutch player, I will give him that. Mullin was also a member of the Dream Team and did average 22+ PPG for six straight seasons.

Karl Malone vs. Dirk Nowitzki

While Nowitzki is a great player, Malone is arguably the top power forward of all-time, and at worst is the second best one of all-time. Nowitzki is in the top-10, but is near the bottom half of it. Malone is the second leading scorer ever and could have probably been the top scorer is he played 2-3 more seasons at max. Don't underestimate Malone's defensive ability either, he was named to 3 All-NBA Defensive First Teams and 1 All-NBA Defensive Second Team, while Nowitzki has 0.

Alonzo Mourning vs. Shaquille O'Neal

Shaq here has probably a little bit more of an advantage over Mourning as Malone does over Nowitzki. Shaq is the better player here for sure, but Mourning was no scrub back in the day though. Like I said, Shaq wins this, but its probably a little closer than many of you would think. Zo is a great defender and would keep Shaq from dominating. Mourning is a 2x Defensive Player of the Year and Shaq is a 0x winner of the award. Also, Shaq has never been named to a All-NBA Defensive First team while Zo has been named to two.

The best statistical season for each of my starting-five:

John Stockton - 17.2 PPG, 14.5 APG, 2.7 SPG, 2.6 RPG, 41.6% from three.

Mitch Richmond - 25.9 PPG, 4.2 APG, 3.7 RPG, 1.5 SPG, 42.8% from three.

Chris Mullin - 25.3 PPG, 4.8 APG, 4.6 RPG, 2.1 SPG, 50.9% from field.

Karl Malone - 31.1 PPG, 11.3 RPG, 2.8 APG, 1.5 SPG, 56.2% from field.

Alonzo Mourning - 20.5 PPG, 11.1 RPG, 3.9 BPG, 1.6 APG, 51.1% from field.

Now let's take a look at each teams bench:

PG - Anfernee Hardaway & Tim Hardaway beat out Chauncey Billups.
SG - Latrell Sprewell loses against T-Mac & Rip Hamilton.
SF - Detlef Schrempf & Glenn Robinson beat out Ron Artest.
PF - Grandmama loses against Kevin McHale & Amar'e Stoudemire
C - Bill Laimbeer and Marc Gasol is very close, but Laimbeer beats him out.

To recap everything about this matchup:

Shaq and Zo have played each other 16 times, here are their per 36 averages against each other:

O'Neal averaged 28.5 PPG, 11.6 RPG, 2.8 PBG, 19.8 FGA, 51% from free throw.

Mourning averaged 25.1 PPG, 10.9 RPG, 2.4 BPG, 18.7 FGA, 72% from free throw.

This shows how close of a matchup it really is with these two.

- White Chocolate's starters win 3-2.
- White Chocolate's bench wins 3-2.
- My whole starting-five is in the Hall of Fame.
- My whole starting-five has started an All-Star game.
- 4 out of my 5 starters have been on an All-NBA First Team.
- I would win every pick-n-roll.
- My team is full of bad *** players.
- I have the greatest tandem of all-time.
- I have three players that played on the Dream Team.

Karl Malone and John Stockton are 8-1 all-time in the playoffs against Shaquille O'Neal.

Thank you for taking the time to read my write-up, please vote for who you think the better team is.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

WC easy.

Spycam's team sucks.

 

[[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]]

White Chocolate used to be A-Train, right?

If so, the last time he played this silly game he had an awful team. This time, it's pretty awesome.

 

[[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]]

WC easy.

Spycam's team sucks.

Whatever you say about the starters, Spy's bench is way better.

 

[fishonjazz]

this one is a coin toss imo

 

[Elizah Huge]

this one is a coin toss imo

I guess I lost the coin toss?

 

[spycam1]

I guess I lost the coin toss?

I called tails. Sorry bro.

 

[spycam1]

WC easy.

Spycam's team sucks.

Don't be jelly bro

 

[The Midnight]

Hmm.. tough matchup.. really tough.

- Shaq would abuse Zo. But then Malone in his prime would eat up Nowitzki for breakfast.

- The rest of the lineup is awash..

- Spy's bench is quite a bit better though...


I think Spy takes it 4-3 because of his bench.

 

[[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]]

Hmm.. tough matchup.. really tough.

- Shaq would abuse Zo. But then Malone in his prime would eat up Nowitzki for breakfast.

- The rest of the lineup is awash..

- Spy's bench is quite a bit better though...


I think Spy takes it 4-3 because of his bench.

You know, WC posted the head-to-head stats of Shaq and Zo. Obviously you were too lazy to look.

 

[The Midnight]

You know, WC posted the head-to-head stats of Shaq and Zo. Obviously you were too lazy to look.

Ok, may be not as dominant but Shaq still has an edge though.

 

[[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]]

Ok, may be not as dominant but Shaq still has an edge though.

And Shaq couldn't defend the PnR worth a ****. Zo could. Where's the edge now? There's a reason John and Karl owned the Lakers during the 90s.

 

[[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]]

Is Spy supposed to send Dirk out to defend the PnR?

WC's team is a nightmare matchup for Spy's starters, IMO.

 

[The Midnight]

And Shaq couldn't defend the PnR worth a ****. Zo could. Where's the edge now? There's a reason John and Karl owned the Lakers during the 90s.

Alright bro, you win, I lose, you're right, I'm wrong, you're the best, I'm the worst.


(Rep for the first person guessing which movie that's from)

 

[Elizah Huge]

Is Spy supposed to send Dirk out to defend the PnR?

WC's team is a nightmare matchup for Spy's starters, IMO.

You going to vote, bro?

 

[Coach Ellis]

Alright bro, you win, I lose, you're right, I'm wrong, you're the best, I'm the worst.


(Rep for the first person guessing which movie that's from)

I don't think it's quite the same, but it reminds me of the scene from Happy Gilmore.

 

[The Midnight]

I don't think it's quite the same, but it reminds me of the scene from Happy Gilmore.

Ding Ding Ding!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rwPovyR9HY

 

[spycam1]

Is Spy supposed to send Dirk out to defend the PnR?

WC's team is a nightmare matchup for Spy's starters, IMO.

That didn't stop Shaq from winning three consecutive Finals MVP's (only player other than MJ to do it).

And if it did get out of hand, then McHale can play more minutes than anticipated. He was a great defender, while also being an incredible scorer. He's better than many of the bigs starting in this tournament.

#depth

 

[[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]]

That didn't stop Shaq from winning three consecutive Finals MVP's (only player other than MJ to do it).

And if it did get out of hand, then McHale can play more minutes than anticipated. He was a great defender, while also being an incredible scorer. He's better than many of the bigs starting in this tournament.

#depth

Shaq is obviously one of the all-time greats. I'm not saying he isn't. I just disagree with this:

Dirk < Malone
Shaq >>> Zo

It's more like:

Dirk <<< Malone
Shaq >> Zo

And besides, this whole contest should be about matchups, and there is no denying that your starters would be hugely vulnerable to WC's.