All-Time Draft 2nd round: Spycam1 vs White Chocolate
- Thread starter spycam1
- Start date
![[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]](/data/avatars/m/2/2497.jpg?1511131091){kind=avatar}
[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]
Well-Known Member
Dirk has always been a liability on defense. Malone as a few all-NBA defensive awards. Malone has a smaller edge on offense, but a gigantic one on defense.
I've already acknowledged that your bench is superior. But you'd be dippin' into that bench in less than 4 minutes in this contest. I think your front courts would battle to a near draw.
I've already acknowledged that your bench is superior. But you'd be dippin' into that bench in less than 4 minutes in this contest. I think your front courts would battle to a near draw.
[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]
Well-Known Member
Yeah, just checked again....
your bench is vastly superior.
your bench is vastly superior.
Hey Spy - have you asked the Mods to un-sticky first round and sticky 2nd round? Might be worth PMing someone?
JoelHodgeJr
Well-Known Member
Beautiful presentation by White Chocolate btw.
now that spy's team undeservedly beat the other team with wilt, i think his team will beat alot of teams. 
i'm picking spy's team because inside game will be too much. everything else looks pretty dead even to me, but spy has Shaq/mchale deadly inside combo. Karl always had problem with mchale. mchale owned karl with his deadly efficiency. karl got his points, but shot poor fg% because mchale's superb defense and the understanding of the game. it's gonna be hard to run a pick and roll against spy's team. i don't think you can run a pick and roll effectively against spies team.
no offense to white chocolate's team. i actually like that team, bench will be exciting to watch with run TMC. but i just don't see how they can neutralize the front court of spy's. if the game was played in 80's, i think laimbeer/zo could really challenge shaq. laimbeer can get into anybody's head. zo's quickness and the help of smart & dirty laimbeer could neutralize shaq. but i'm assuming this game will be played today with today's rule. laimbeer can't do any of his tricks. definitely no nut grabbing. lol
anyway let's all agree that this kinda basketball math never ever works.
you guys are building a team. not an all star team with who has more talents. so far i saw 2 horribly constructed teams - both of these teams would lose to 14 spurs IMO.
i'm picking spy's team because inside game will be too much. everything else looks pretty dead even to me, but spy has Shaq/mchale deadly inside combo. Karl always had problem with mchale. mchale owned karl with his deadly efficiency. karl got his points, but shot poor fg% because mchale's superb defense and the understanding of the game. it's gonna be hard to run a pick and roll against spy's team. i don't think you can run a pick and roll effectively against spies team.
no offense to white chocolate's team. i actually like that team, bench will be exciting to watch with run TMC. but i just don't see how they can neutralize the front court of spy's. if the game was played in 80's, i think laimbeer/zo could really challenge shaq. laimbeer can get into anybody's head. zo's quickness and the help of smart & dirty laimbeer could neutralize shaq. but i'm assuming this game will be played today with today's rule. laimbeer can't do any of his tricks. definitely no nut grabbing. lol
anyway let's all agree that this kinda basketball math never ever works.
you guys are building a team. not an all star team with who has more talents. so far i saw 2 horribly constructed teams - both of these teams would lose to 14 spurs IMO.
Last edited:
[size/HUGE] fixed [/size];892121 said:
wrong, wrong, awfully wrong... i don't know where to begin...
peak mchale is 3 times all first team D. nobody can really stop karl. but there are guys who can neutralize karl's greatness and mchale is one of them especially on a stacked team like this. shaq's defensive value is greatly enhanced by mchale's greatness. dirk will be a 6th man for this team.
This is a tough one.
PG: Thomas and Stockton would be a wash, but the Hardaways outweigh Billups, so PG I go WC because of the bench.
SG: Drexler, McGrady, and Hamilton is a no-brainer over Sprewell and Richmond. McGrady in the second-string beats both of WC's players.
SF: Pierce and Artest would outplay Mullin and company. Pierce cancels out Mullin and I am not a huge Big Dawg fan. I like Detlef, but I think Artest shuts him down.
PF: Hate to say, but I think McHale, Nowitzi, and Stoudemire can overmatch Malone. LJ wouldn't even be in the conversation. Malone might be the #2 PF of all-time, but Dirk and Kevin are probably #4 and #5. Plus, their game are exact opposites, one the best post player scorer ever and the original and best stretch 4 ever. I know Amare is listed as a center, but he is really a PF and in his prime was a
C: Shaq and Gasol vs. Mourning and Laimbeer: This is a toss-up to me. I think Laimbeer in his prime, might have been one of the few players that could hold down Shaq and in their 16 meetings Zo seemed to hold his own against Kazaam. I think Shaq and his 4 titles though have an edge the inside-out game with him and Dirk would be hard to stop.
While I was hoping for WC to go all the way, so at least I can say I was beat by the champion... I think I have to go with Spycam1
PG: Thomas and Stockton would be a wash, but the Hardaways outweigh Billups, so PG I go WC because of the bench.
SG: Drexler, McGrady, and Hamilton is a no-brainer over Sprewell and Richmond. McGrady in the second-string beats both of WC's players.
SF: Pierce and Artest would outplay Mullin and company. Pierce cancels out Mullin and I am not a huge Big Dawg fan. I like Detlef, but I think Artest shuts him down.
PF: Hate to say, but I think McHale, Nowitzi, and Stoudemire can overmatch Malone. LJ wouldn't even be in the conversation. Malone might be the #2 PF of all-time, but Dirk and Kevin are probably #4 and #5. Plus, their game are exact opposites, one the best post player scorer ever and the original and best stretch 4 ever. I know Amare is listed as a center, but he is really a PF and in his prime was a
C: Shaq and Gasol vs. Mourning and Laimbeer: This is a toss-up to me. I think Laimbeer in his prime, might have been one of the few players that could hold down Shaq and in their 16 meetings Zo seemed to hold his own against Kazaam. I think Shaq and his 4 titles though have an edge the inside-out game with him and Dirk would be hard to stop.
While I was hoping for WC to go all the way, so at least I can say I was beat by the champion... I think I have to go with Spycam1
Zo holding his own against shaq? that's new.
head to head
shaq is 13-3 against zo
shaq
30/12.4/3block .568% fg
zo
21/9.2/2block .439% fg
so basically if shaq made his FTs he would be dropping 35/12.4 against so.
shaq gets his points against anybody. only center who can give shaq a trouble is wilt
QuinSnydersHair
Well-Known Member
This isn't even close to me. I voted Spy. As much as I liked my team in round one, and voted for my team, I think he has the best team. Spy has four stud starters (I'm not a huge Drexler fan) all of whom were super clutch players and could can hit huge shots when needed. Isaiah, Pierce, Dirk and Shaq were four of the clutches players in NBA history imo. Like 4 out of the top 12 or so.
And White Chocolate? He doesn't have a guy with one ring on his team to my knowledge.
I also like spy's bench better with McHale and Billups. Two studs with rings.
This isn't even close. Spy's team would sweep him in four by an average margin of victory of about 15.
And White Chocolate? He doesn't have a guy with one ring on his team to my knowledge.
I also like spy's bench better with McHale and Billups. Two studs with rings.
This isn't even close. Spy's team would sweep him in four by an average margin of victory of about 15.
i agree with your choice, but don't agree with your assessment. Mchale is the starter because dirk can't guard karl. mchale was a nasty defender in his peak. such a smart guy who was tough as nails. honestly dirk really is not a good fit for spy's team especially when you are going up against pick & roll team. and no way in hell pierce starts over drexler. drexler is a lock starter for this team. if you put pierce & dirk together - team will become a jump shooting team and shaq would get lost in the middle.
i would start
isiah
drexler
tmac
mchale
shaq
that's a good looking team. and bench will provide 3pt shooting power. but no doubt this team isn't a 3pt shooting team. they are pound the ball inside bruisers.
and Zo did win a ring - but he was reduced to an 20 min enforcer. he was a critical role player for that heat team, but obviously his best days were behind especially after coming back from kidney transplant surgery.
QuinSnydersHair
Well-Known Member
This is an awful lineup. Pierce is light years better than McGrady. Maybe McHale but to doesn't matter.
spycam1
Well-Known Member
In the context of a series, if the pick n roll of Stockton/Malone became too difficult for Dirk/Shaq to guard in game 1, then McHale would start game 2.
McHale provides enough offense (very different method of scoring though) to come in for Dirk, and makes up for the lack of defense, if truly need be.
Laimbeer has two, Richmond has one, Mourning has one, and Robinson has one.
QuinSnydersHair
Well-Known Member
I'll give you Laimbeer. I meant to mention him but those other guys all won one riding the coattails of the players who truly won it.
No comparison here to me. Spy is full of winners. Your team, not so much. You're still my dawg doe.
No comparison here to me. Spy is full of winners. Your team, not so much. You're still my dawg doe.
pierce is better than prime tmac? that's new. never heard of that. very refreshing
tmac
2× All-NBA First Team (2002–2003)
3× All-NBA Second Team (2001, 2004, 2007)
2× All-NBA Third Team (2005, 2008)
2× NBA scoring champion (2003–2004)
pierce
All-NBA Second Team (2009)
3× All-NBA Third Team (2002–2003, 2008)
why prime tmac is better than prime pierce
1. and 9 out of 10 GM would take prime tmac to start a team over pierce. hell, if kobe and tmac were both FA in 02-03, i would say it would say 5 out 10 GMs would've taken tmac over friggin KOBE.
2. arguably tmac was the best player in the league in 02-03 season. 32.1 avg. carried his team to playoffs.
3. tmac is much better basketball talent. This is not debatable. tmac was better scorer, better passer, and better rebounder
4. tmac has better measurables - taller, longer, and more athletic.
only thing pierce has on tmac is intangibles and perceived clutchness. i'm not a big 'clutch' guy. it's overrated. it's a team game. and tmac put up very good numbers in the playoffs. and he made plenty of big shots in his career. IMO, tmac would've been a great pippen. he never was a lead dog material. he puts too much pressure on his shoulders.
and clutch factor doesn't even matter in this debate. because both pierce & tmac aren't lead dogs here. tmac won't have a pressure to carry the team. he will cruise as #3 or even 4th option.
light years better?
Last edited:
QuinSnydersHair
Well-Known Member
Pierce will be a first ballot Hall of Famer. McGrady will take years to make it. If he ever does. So yeah, Pierce is better.
But how much of Pierce's success was due to Garnett and Allen joining him though? He was good but not great, and I don't think he would be a HOF if those guys hadn't arrived.