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All-Time NBA Draft Round 1: Ellis269 vs. ONE LOVE

Who would win in a 7 game series?

  • Ellis269

    Votes: 12 40.0%

  • ONE LOVE

    Votes: 18 60.0%
  • Total voters
    30
  • Poll closed .
Elizah Huge

Elizah Huge

Respect All, Fear None
Contributor
2024 Award Winner
Team Ellis269:

PG - Steve Nash / Dennis Johnson
SG - Kobe Bryant / Pete Maravich
SF - Dominique Wilkins / Rick Barry
PF - Karl Malone / Ben Wallace
C - Arvydas Sabonis / Nate Thurmond

Team ONE LOVE:

PG - Gary Payton / Damian Lillard
SG - Dwayne Wade / Michael Redd
SF - James Worthy / Glenn Robinson
PF - Chris Webber / LaMarcus Aldridge
C - Shaquille O'Neal / Marc Gasol

Ellis269's Case:

My focus is on having three of the top scorers of All-Time (Karl Malone, Kobe Bryant and Dominique Wilkins) and then pairing that trio with two of the most creative passers of all time to get them the ball and space the floor. My team would be killer in transition (Nash leading the break with Wilkins, Bryant and Malone) and killer in the half court. Pick and roll with Nash/Sabonis and Malone. Malone or Dominique slashing to the basket. Or Malone/Kobe/Dominique in Iso situations. Kobe, Nash and Sabonis can shoot from outside. Malone and Sabonis can bang inside. Just enough defense between prime Sabonis, Malone and Kobe to get stops (and you can bring in Wallace, Barry and/or Johnson to team with Malone and Bryant when you absolutely must make a defensive stand.)

My team has pretty much everything that it needs to be successful.

Elite Passing? (Nash, prime Sabonis, Maravich, Barry and DJ)
Elite Scoring? (Malone, Bryant, Wilkins, prime Sabonis, Maravich and Barry)
Elite Defense? (Malone, Bryant, Wallace, Thurmond, prime Sabonis, Barry and DJ)
Elite Rebounding? (Malone, Wallace, Thurmond and prime Sabonis)
Elite Shooting? (Nash, Maravich, Bryant, Sabonis and Barry)
Elite BBIQ? (Every single damn one of them)
Elite Bench? (3 Hall of Fame All-Time Greats and one of only two 4x NBA Defensive Player of the Year)

• Utah Jazz All-Time Leading Scorer (Karl Malone)
• Los Angeles Lakers All-Time Leading Scorer (Kobe Bryant)
• Atlanta Hawks All-Time Leading Scorer (Dominique Wilkins)

10x NBA Champion
5x NBA MVP
4x NBA Finals MVP

78x NBA All-Star Game Appearances
7x NBA All- Star Game MVP

34x All-NBA First Team
17x All-NBA Second Team
9x All-NBA Third Team

5x NBA Scoring Champion (Kobe Bryant, Dominique Wilkins, Pete Maravich, Rick Barry)

5x NBA Assists Leader (Steve Nash)

4x NBA Defensive Player of the Year (Ben Wallace)
2x NBA Rebounds Leader (Ben Wallace)
1x NBA Blocks Leader (Ben Wallace)
Detroit Pistons All-Time Leader in Blocks (Ben Wallace)
1x NBA Steals Leader (Rick Barry)
25x NBA All-Defensive First Team
11x NBA All-Defensive Second Team

4x NBA 50th Anniversary All-Time Team (Karl Malone, Pistol Pete Maravich, Rick Barry and Nate Thurmond)

And all of this with having one of the most physically gifted and dominant big men of all time (Arvydas Sabonis) spend his prime years stuck in Europe.

PG: Steve Nash - 2x NBA MVP - 5x NBA Assist Leader - One of the most creative passers to ever play the game. Was as adept running the fast break as he was running pick and roll in half court sets. Perfect player to pair with Karl Malone (after John Stockton of course)
[video=youtube_share;OwelXb0Vgfs]https://youtu.be/OwelXb0Vgfs

SG: Kobe "Black Mamba" Bryant - 2x NBA MVP - 5x NBA Champion - 2x NBA Scoring Champion - Los Angeles Lakers All-Time Leading Scorer - One of the most competitive players to ever grace the NBA and a player who could take over any game. Clutch performer and born winner.
[video=youtube_share;7ZyyejtInYU]https://youtu.be/7ZyyejtInYU

SF: Dominique "The Human Highlight Film" Wilkins - 1x NBA Scoring Champion - Atlanta Hawks All-Time Leading Scorer - Simply an electrifying combination of athleticism, speed and leaping ability - better shooter, passer and defender than he gets credit for
[video=youtube_share;xlqF05pEyj8]https://youtu.be/xlqF05pEyj8

PF: Karl "The Mailman" Malone - 2x NBA MVP - Utah Jazz All-Time Leading Scorer - Stockton to Malone provided the NBA with the best Pick and Roll tandem in NBA History - One of the most prolific scorers in NBA history and the focal point for my team.
[video=youtube_share;Jv6vD1iKOU4]https://youtu.be/Jv6vD1iKOU4

C: Arvydas Sabonis - One of the most physically gifted and dominant big men of all time. Could pass, shoot, drive and defend. Basketball IQ was off the charts. Unfortunately politics and injuries robbed the NBA of him during his best years. . . but still a mesmerizing presence on the court. One of the smartest and creative big men to ever play the game, his passing was on an unparalleled level.
[video=youtube_share;18tnToDLHV4]https://youtu.be/18tnToDLHV4

ONE LOVE's Case:

Offensive Philosophy

This team will play inside-out basketball with the ever reliable Gary Payton running the offense. Shaq & Webber will both feature prominently offensively. They will both demand the ball and score at will down low. Webber can step out and shoot the jumpshot, but he is also a very good passer and will likely give Shaq, Wade and Worthy easy looks as well.

Wade, a proven clutch player, will also handle the ball and make plays for himself and others.

In the 2nd unit there are scorers galore, all are dynamic players that demand double teams: LaMarcus Aldridge, Glenn Robinson, Michael Redd and Damian Lillard. Marc Gasol with his passing will anchor the post. Plenty of spacing with Redd and Lillard are elite 3 point shooters, and Robinson and Aldridge both great mid range shooter/scorers.

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Defensive Philosophy

Defense starts at the PG with Gary Payton, the only point guard to have ever won a DPOY. Dwayne Wade and James Worthy provide physical wing defense, and Shaq and Webber are terrific defensive anchors, with Shaq averaging 3 blocks per game in his prime. In the 2nd unit, Marc Gasol the former DPOY will play the pivot and will organise the defensive strategy. His presence and intensity alone makes the team better defensively.

Gary Payton in his prime is considered the best defender of Michael Jordan, and while in this match-up he will be guarding Nash mostly, when switched onto Kobe on PnR, Payton will really relish the chance to stop Kobe as well.

future-hall-famer-gary-payton-hatred-with-nba.jpg


Match-up with Ellis269

- Post: SHAQ/Webber >> Sabonis/Malone

- PG: Payton > Nash

- Wings: Wade/Worthy = Kobe/Wilkins

- 2nd Unit: Lillard/Redd/Robinson/Aldridge/Gasol > Johnson/Maravich/Barry/Wallace/Thurmund

Ellis269 has put together a solid team. But in the post, the Shaq/Webber combination will dominate the Sabonis/Malone combo offensively. Shaq especially is going to be too strong for Sabonis to contain.. and when you add in Webber's passing, Shaq will get many easy dunks.

Defensively the Payton/Wade pairing is more than a match for Nash/Kobe. At the point, Gary Payton will stick to Nash like glue and disrupt everything that Nash wants to do. Wade and will be a competitive match for Bryant both offensively and defensively.

In the 2nd unit, my team is too versatile and skilled offensively with 3pt shooters in Lillard, Redd, Robinson, and dynamic scorers in Robinson and Aldridge, and great post scorer in Marc Gasol. Ellis269 team doesn't have any 3 point shooter in the 2nd unit, and spacing will be a problem (Johnson, Maravic, Barry don't shoot 3's).

In summary, the dominant post play and overall scoring should translate to a 4-2 series win.

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Damn. Sucks these two met so early. These might be my two favorite teams in the competition.

Gonna have to really delve into this one.
 
I have it like this
Starting talent: Very very slight edge to one love. Payton nash even. kobe > wade. worthy bareley better than nique. malone > webber. Shaq > sabonis. Such a close matchup (i strongly disagree with one love saying that webber/shaq>>malone/sabonis btw.)
Fit: Ellis
matchups: Even
bench: One love
strategy/coaching:I like ellis strategy combo of elite passing and elite scorers.
I Give the very very slight edge to ONE LOVE. I think his bench just barely gives him the win. This is a 7 game series and should be the finals imo. I think the winner of this one wins the whole thing.
 
Awful matchup this early. Two really good teams.

Question: are we doing best Sabonis NBA years, or can we take his prime euro years?

I really like the Webber/Shaq combo, but I'm meh on the rest. Wade is obviously great, but him, Payton and Shaq all clog the lane. Not sure how well they play together. Not a huge fan of OL's bench either, outside of Gasol.

On the other hand, idk who Nash defends. He leads to easy baskets for Shaq/Webber. Really great mat chips though, Nash/Payton, Kobe/Wade, Nique/Worthy, Malone/Webber, Sabonis/Shaq...this one is really really close.

I gotta give it to OL, but these guys shouldn't have been playing eachother this early. Two of the best teams for sure.
 
#bern said:
Awful matchup this early. Two really good teams.

Question: are we doing best Sabonis NBA years, or can we take his prime euro years?

I really like the Webber/Shaq combo, but I'm meh on the rest. Wade is obviously great, but him, Payton and Shaq all clog the lane. Not sure how well they play together. Not a huge fan of OL's bench either, outside of Gasol.

On the other hand, idk who Nash defends. He leads to easy baskets for Shaq/Webber. Really great mat chips though, Nash/Payton, Kobe/Wade, Nique/Worthy, Malone/Webber, Sabonis/Shaq...this one is really really close.

I gotta give it to OL, but these guys shouldn't have been playing eachother this early. Two of the best teams for sure.
Click to expand...
Agree with all of it. Pretty much exactly my thoughts.

As for your sabonis question... The way I understand it is that you take the very best (peak) of each player. So I just pictured sabonis at his best in my mind from all I have heard and seen of him.

That's why one loves claim that shaq/webber >> sabonis Malone is ridiculous to me.
I have shaq and webber being the tiniest bit better than malone and sabonis. So so close. Tbh without my bias for shaq (I probably have him higher on my overall rankings than most) they are probably about even since Malone is obviously better than webber.

It's just tough with a guy like sabonis. I mean he has great size, can shoot, great passer, even has handles and I hear people say that when he was at his best he was better than Jordan..... But I have to take that with a grain of salt. When I saw him play he was good, great even but not on the level of Jordan (or shaq for that matter). But I can't totally disregard the things I have heard people say about his euros years either.
 
Sabonis was really freaking good. Look what he was doing in his 30's when he came here. Now just picture him in his prime. Incredible player, and I think underrated by the average fan here.
 
#bern said:
Sabonis was really freaking good. Look what he was doing in his 30's when he came here. Now just picture him in his prime. Incredible player, and I think underrated by the average fan here.
Click to expand...

I barely pay attention to the all-time draft thingys, but every year I see the Sabonis debate. Maybe we should start a thread just for him.
 
ONE LOVE's starters: no space
ONE LOVE's bench: lots of space

I think your lineup could use some tweaking.
 
Came here to see who voted and the "new" posters are One Love alts or not but for "some" reason the poll is anonymous!!
 
Should have taken Wilt with that Malone pick. Also should have finished your starters before taking Pete. Although I really like Pistol as a player. Really great talent, I would start him over Nash. Thats just my opinion though.

This is a close one to me though. I gave the edge to One Love but I could be persuaded either way on this match up.
 
I knew that matching up Shaq in the first round would be rough on my team. Sabonis is a great big man as a starter, but hard to influence voters to pick him over Shaq.

Malone would own Webber all day, everyday. And Malone would have been able to help defend against Shaq inside while Sabonis stepped out more like a stretch 5. If prime Sabonis couldn't match up with prime Shaq (he could) I know that prime Malone would hold his own and prime Sabonis would still eat Webber's lunch and kiss his girlfriend.

And while James Worthy was a boss and clutch as hell, I think Dominique Wilkins is highly underrated in this thing. A lot of his stats are better than Worthy's. Dominique had a higher usage rate, higher points per game (24.8 vs 17.6), higher 3 point percentage (.319 vs .281), more than twice as many free throw attempts and makes at a higher percentage (7,438/6,031/.811 vs 3,184/2,447/.769), more offensive, defensive and total rebounds per game (2.7/3.9/6.7 vs 1.4/3.4/5.1), and nearly identical numbers of assists, steals and blocks per game (2.5/1.3/0.6 vs 3.0/1.1/0.7).

Every year I get dinged for my spacing issues, but nobody in his starting lineup shoots well from outside. Surprised that wasn't a bigger issue. Almost all of my starting guys are better shooters vs. their counterparts. Shaq inside kills me, but (outside of that matchup) offensively, my team is better across the board. And his top defenders (Shaq and Payton) don't do a thing to slow down all three of my top weapons in Malone, Kobe and Dominique.

This was a bad matchup for my team right out of the gate. Was hoping it would be closer so I'd at least get a 2nd round game, but not sure that's going to happen. One Love has a great team. Should have ended up facing him later on in this thing. Props to him.
 
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