America in Four Graphs

[VINYLONE]

The first step in educational reform is realizing that the human intellectual skill set is not equally distributed across the entire course content. As a side note, using graph paper and a pencil when one can be taught to master a graphing calculator is beyond idiotic.

Granted. So the solution is to set the bar for the lowest common denominator?

Furthermore, do you find writing a letter by hand just as idiotic because you can send it via email?

 

[The Pearl]

I couldn't agree with this more. I can see a huge difference between my grandparents to my parents to myself and even my youngest brother who is 11 years younger than me. Where my grandparents were a product of the Great Depression and bought only what they really needed with cash and saved everything else, my younger brother will go buy a new car just because he tired of the color he currently has. All of his kids have their own room, their own TV, their own cell phone and his daughter that just turned 16 is getting her own car. I know he is in debt up to eyeballs.

The problem is that everyone now feels they need these things, are even entitled to these things, and don't view them as a luxury or want and will do whatever it takes to get them.

First off, people to should be free to get up to their eyeballs in debt if they choose to do so. Greed and jealousy are emotions virtually impossible for humans to control. The financial acumen of the "depression era" generation is highly overrated and exaggerated. These folks paid for things in cash because they had no choice. Consumer credit did not exist. Even then, car loans are not a new "modern" phenomenon. GMAC was started in 1919. The depression era folks largely behaved the way they behaved due to the vast sums of money lost in the banking system. There was FDIC at the time. People from that generation were highly scarred. With that said, this generation did not shun the modern trappings of everyday life. They dived right in for fridges, cars, houses, tv's, etc just like any other generation.

Each generation is aghast at what the generation below spends their dollars on. I am old enough to remember when a serious technological upgrade to one's living conditions was getting a rotary TV antennae on the roof. Hell, my dad blew a gasket when he I told him I pay for Onstar.

 

[franklin]

If you have a link to that figure, i'd be interested in having it (not doubting you, just would like to be able to show that to people).

This NBER paper by Robert Gordon is a good start. https://faculty-web.at.northwestern.edu/economics/gordon/SFONBER_Combined_090902.pdf

This isn't my favorite area, so I'd need a week or so to find the good stuff.

Secondly, even with that being true, the % is staying the same because some workers are increasing compensation while other workers...are seeing their jobs disappear.

This is why I wonder if we need a new Lewis Turning Point.

I mean yes, the material gains are great, and I said as much.

My whole point with these graphs was to make the case, that this trend (more and more stuff, less and less work) was not going away for a decade plus and that I don't think this is because of globalization/immigration/govt spending. And if this is going to be our new reality, we need to adjust our social structures to take this into account.

We need our institutions to be more flexible in dealing with part-time/contract workers. We need to change our education system dramatically, so that it spends less time teaching facts and more time teachign independent thinking etc.

I wasn't meaning to mock your ideas, and thought you made really good points the first time through. Maybe you've defined the challenge of today.

Graphs like these are constantly misused to spread doom and gloom, which happens to feed on itself and cause more doom and gloom.

 

[The Pearl]

Granted. So the solution is to set the bar for the lowest common denominator?

Furthermore, do you find writing a letter by hand just as idiotic because you can send it via email?

You teach calculus to the kids that can do calculus and are pursuing careers that require calculus. Regarding writing a letter, that is a poor comparison. If I am at Harvard Business School in a finance class, I am not doing financial calculations with a piece of paper and a pencil. My mechanic isn't fixing my vehicle using 6 tools under the shade tree.

 

[franklin]

First off, people to should be free to get up to their eyeballs in debt if they choose to do so. Greed and jealousy are emotions virtually impossible for humans to control. The financial acumen of the "depression era" generation is highly overrated and exaggerated. These folks paid for things in cash because they had no choice. Consumer credit did not exist. Even then, car loans are not a new "modern" phenomenon. GMAC was started in 1919. The depression era folks largely behaved the way they behaved due to the vast sums of money lost in the banking system. There was FDIC at the time. People from that generation were highly scarred. With that said, this generation did not shun the modern trappings of everyday life. They dived right in for fridges, cars, houses, tv's, etc just like any other generation.

Each generation is aghast at what the generation below spends their dollars on. I am old enough to remember when a serious technological upgrade to one's living conditions was getting a rotary TV antennae on the roof. Hell, my dad blew a gasket when he I told him I pay for Onstar.

Spending creates jobs. If everyone saved like a puritan then we'd be much less productive. Then again, housing would not have gotten outlandish--talk about the middle class shooting themselves in the foot and complaining about it--and maybe we'd all have more time for fishing.

This whole spend vs. save thing is entirely gray area. Who can really define the perfect point? We can only hope the savers and spenders offset each other.

 

[The Pearl]

Spending creates jobs. If everyone saved like a puritan then we'd be much less productive. Then again, housing would not have gotten outlandish--talk about the middle class shooting themselves in the foot and complaining about it--and maybe we'd all have more time for fishing.

This whole spend vs. save thing is entirely gray area. Who can really define the perfect point? We can only hope the savers and spenders offset each other.

Of course, the thought that every single American holed up in there house and filling the coffee cans with quarters and burying it the back yard will somehow be good for the country is idiotic beyond belief. Those that got caught up in the housing frenzy and fell victim to it got exactly what they deserve. The American system isn't broken, it did exactly what it was supposed to do. It flushed the turd balls down the toilet along with the worthless realtors, appraisers, mortgage brokers, contractors, and Mr. and Mr.s suburbia clinging to their granite counter tops and stainless steel appliances. It truly is a marvelous thing to witness. Middle class American's didn't like the process so now they are sulking like teenagers grounded for the weekend. Nobody under 50 ever experienced a real cleansing recession. Welcome to 1980.

The politicians are politicians. Despite the morons on the far left and the far right, no politician is going to sit on their hands in a position of "leadership" and proclaim the cleansing of the system will be good for everybody. They will do what people in charge do, do "something instead of nothing".

 

[One Brow]

As a side note, using graph paper and a pencil when one can be taught to master a graphing calculator is beyond idiotic.

If the point is to produce accurate graphs, you are correct. If the point to give the student a feel between how the function behaves and of what the function is composed, I disagree.

Each generation is aghast at what the generation below spends their dollars on.

Too, too true.

You teach calculus to the kids that can do calculus and are pursuing careers that require calculus.

As long as these kids are being encouraged to explore their potential, sure. Some kids who belong in calculus need to be pushed to get there.

 

[The Pearl]

One Brow,

Points well taken. No question if your goal is initially to get the students to understand the basics, that is fine. No problem there. Also, I agree that some kids need pushing. Perhaps that is a different discussion.

 

[Scat]

First off, people to should be free to get up to their eyeballs in debt if they choose to do so. Greed and jealousy are emotions virtually impossible for humans to control. The financial acumen of the "depression era" generation is highly overrated and exaggerated. These folks paid for things in cash because they had no choice. Consumer credit did not exist. Even then, car loans are not a new "modern" phenomenon. GMAC was started in 1919. The depression era folks largely behaved the way they behaved due to the vast sums of money lost in the banking system. There was FDIC at the time. People from that generation were highly scarred. With that said, this generation did not shun the modern trappings of everyday life. They dived right in for fridges, cars, houses, tv's, etc just like any other generation.

Each generation is aghast at what the generation below spends their dollars on. I am old enough to remember when a serious technological upgrade to one's living conditions was getting a rotary TV antennae on the roof. Hell, my dad blew a gasket when he I told him I pay for Onstar.

My point was that looking 3-4 generations back there is an obvious and clear change in attitude towards money, spending and saving. And not necessarily for the better.

I'm not advocating that everyone should live like my grandparents/Depression era generations. Good Lord, I saw my grandparents save some weird **** and go without many luxuries to the point that their quality of life was affected.

On the other end of the spectrum there are those that spend every last penny they have and then spend thousands of dollars more that they don't have. Don't get me wrong, they have every right to do so however when they retire and are in debt and have no pot to piss in why should the government bail them out?

Regarding your On Star, if you have the money to pay for it, great. More power to you. If you are making the monthly payments on revolving credit that's your right but it doesn't make much sense.

 

[The Pearl]

My point was that looking 3-4 generations back there is an obvious and clear change in attitude towards money, spending and saving. And not necessarily for the better.



On the other end of the spectrum there are those that spend every last penny they have and then spend thousands of dollars more that they don't have. Don't get me wrong, they have every right to do so however when they retire and are in debt and have no pot to piss in why should the government bail them out?

How does the government bail these people out? I know of no program that does this nor of one in the planning stages.

 

[LORDZEDD]

if you want to blame somebody, blame jimmy the piece of **** carter

 

[The-Joker]

if you want to blame somebody, blame jimmy the piece of **** carter

Next time before you think don't. Carter if anything temporarily advanced the rest of the worlds view of the US with a very active stance in foreign policy.
Did not do much for the US in domestic policy.

Now reagan, some of his "inside buddy" deals definitely had an impact on our standing today.