American Soldier Murders Afghans

[MK11]

All Religions ultimately lead to the same ****....violence and war.

There is only one God, Gordon Hayward.

/thread

I know you're just joking around my friend, but I'd like to respond still, because it's a common belief everywhere.

We can always ask a test question like this, "If there wasn't any religion in the world, there would be a better world?

This is just my answer : I don't think so! We, the humanity, would have found a way with the all other excuses, pretexts or covers to make a shi*y world as shi* as today's world!

So in my opinon, the problem is not actually/mostly about the religions, it's all about the people.

 

[Stoked]

I know you're just joking around my friend, but I'd like to respond still, because it's a common belief everywhere.

We can always ask a test question like this, "If there wasn't any religion in the world, there would be a better world?

This is just my answer : I don't think so! We, the humanity, would have found a way with the all other excuses, pretexts or covers to make a shi*y world as shi* as today's world!

So in my opinon, the problem is not actually/mostly about the religions, it's all about the people.

I agree that it is the people more then the reigion. If they didnt fight about religiont hey would fight about race, nationality, language, or a million other things. People have a clan mentality. To bad they cannot expand that to everyone being of the same "clan".

 

[TheDude]

Children are a threat to our soldiers. That's just a fact.

I enjoyed your "war against children" straw-man though. I knew someone would go there.



Two Middle East mothers are sitting in a cafe chatting over a plate of tabouli and a pint of goats milk.

The older of the mothers pulls a bag out of her purse and starts flipping through photos. And they start reminiscing.

This is my oldest son Mohammed. He would be 24 years old now.

Yes, I remember him as a baby says the other mother cheerfully.

He’s a martyr now though mum confides.

Oh, so sad dear says the other.

And this is my second son Kalid. He would be 21'

Oh, I remember him, says the other happily, he had such curly hair when he was born.

Hes a martyr too says mum quietly.

Oh, gracious me Says the other.

And this is my third son. My baby. My beautiful Ahmed.

He would be 18, she whispers.

Yes says the friend enthusiastically, I remember when he first started school

Hes a martyr also, says mum, with tears in her eyes.

After a pause and a deep sigh, the second Muslim mother looks wistfully at the photographs and says

They blow up so fast, dont they

It's funny that you call upon every stereotype of the Islamic faith with your hateful garbage, but you yourself are a walking, talking stereotype for conservatives. You are an intolerant bigot. STFU already.

 

[The Black Swordsman]

World War 1 and 2 was motivated not by religion.

6 million Jews reportedly have died in the holocaust but everyone overlooks the 25 million Russians who died not because of their religion not to mention the two nukes from US.

When a bomb blows up all it does is rearrange molecules. How can an atheist complain about such things?

 

[PearlWatson]

It's funny that you call upon every stereotype of the Islamic faith with your hateful garbage, but you yourself are a walking, talking stereotype for conservatives. You are an intolerant bigot. STFU already.

Stereotypes occur for a reason. Your last sentence was ironic.

Why should I be tolerant of an intolerant violent religion that wants me and my countrymen dead, or to convert me through force?

Did anyone actually read what MK wrote? He thought it great to take Christian children from their families through force and convert them to Islam and laughed about the dream of Islam taking over Europe.

Well, it's the obvious. We love Balkan people.(not all of them ) We consider Bosnians, Albanians, Kosovans and even Macedonians and Hungarians(this is another topic) as our brothers.

But I'd like to go a little bit back in the history to explain the bonds between the the Turks(not as the etnicity) and the Balkans' people.

That's mainly because of the Ottoman policy. Unlike the former turkish empires, Ottomans didn't care about the etnicities much and let lots of people from other etnicities, into it's government system to have high positions in the palace, military or religious states. A form of this was the "devşirme system", which is basically finding talented or bright christian boys, especially from the Balkans, taking them from their families(forcibly, sometimes), converting them into Islam and training them into the leadership positions in different areas, even to the top of the empire! One of the main reasons to executing this system was for stating that it's not an empire which only belongs to the turkic nobles but also to 30 different etnic citizen groups of the empire. It was also preventing the fights for the throne between the turkic nobles. (Before Ottomans, tens of turkic empire collapsed because of that throne issue.) With in the time, this system started to work well, because people were themselves wanting to go into the Palace.

Anyway, in the first place, the ottomans have always considered the Balkans as too important, because their ultimate dream was conquering the whole Europe hehe.

 

[Stoked]

Millsapa is for conservatives what Blaskswordsman is for Muslims.

 

[MK11]

Stereotypes occur for a reason. Your last sentence was ironic.

Why should I be tolerant of an intolerant violent religion that wants me and my countrymen dead, or to convert me through force?

Did anyone actually read what MK wrote? He thought it great to take Christian children from their families through force and convert them to Islam and laughed about the dream of Islam taking over Europe.

Did you read at all? I believe you didn't, duly.

Millsapa, please read again those sentences, I was just trying to be objective. I just tried to put a self-image. I could have just passed those things and not mentioned at all, if I were biased about the Ottomans. They had their bests and worsts just like the all historical nations/empires/countries. Even that smiley was a sarcasm bro! (I don't know if you're a she or he so don't get angry if you're a she)

I won't accuse you with being a bad reader but atleast you can try to read without any biases, can't you?

 

[Deleted member 848]

The Ottoman empire were the only Muslim empire (pretty sure) that ever forcibly converted people into Islam. Forced conversion are EXTREMELY blasphemous, and against islam right to the core. There's a reason that no sort of missionary work exists. Muslims are very very very against that sort of thing, the Ottoman's used faithful conversion not for the sake of faith, but rather, for political reasons. If that makes any sense, Sapa.

 

[MK11]

The Ottoman empire were the only Muslim empire (pretty sure) that ever forcibly converted people into Islam. Forced conversion are EXTREMELY blasphemous, and against islam right to the core. There's a reason that no sort of missionary work exists. Muslims are very very very against that sort of thing, the Ottoman's used faithful conversion not for the sake of faith, but rather, for political reasons. If that makes any sense, Sapa.

Thanks for the expanding dalamon, now, I'd like to add why it's EXTREMELY blasphemous to convert people into Islam.

Forced conversion is one of the biggest sins in Islam, because of, being a hypocrite(as a term which is used for ones pretending to be a muslim though he's/she's not) is more wrongdoing than not being a muslim at all, and a big sin, in Islam.

Forced conversions will only be cause for creating hypocrites, so it will be sinful for both sides and hence it is a big sin, in Islam.

BTW, a note for the biased readers; I'm not saying that not being a muslim is the wrong way, I can't decide for it, it's up to for anyone's job to select his/her religion, or not to have a religion at all.

And another note that may seem interesting to the ones who think Turkey is a rank Islamic country... Even though I'm not a helluva religous person, I was not allowed to practise my religion in the army and I won't be when I'm back there. There is hell of a secularism in Turkey way more than most of the western countries.

And one last thing, the ottoman empire is known in the history by not converting the areas which they take over, into Islam, they became that big owing to that policy, in the first place. The system of "Devşirme" was just a partial government policy to raise leaders for the empire.

 

[Siro]

The Ottoman empire were the only Muslim empire (pretty sure) that ever forcibly converted people into Islam. Forced conversion are EXTREMELY blasphemous, and against islam right to the core. There's a reason that no sort of missionary work exists. Muslims are very very very against that sort of thing, the Ottoman's used faithful conversion not for the sake of faith, but rather, for political reasons. If that makes any sense, Sapa.

That is simply not true. But I won't engage in that debate because I don't want to be lumped with Millsapa. Sooo, I'll broach it some other time.

Edit: It is true in the case of Christians and Jews. But not others. Not by a long shot.

 

[The Black Swordsman]

Stereotypes happen for a reason?

That reason is the media.

The media picks up the black sheep's from the Muslim community and labels them as exemplary Muslims.

 

[Deleted member 848]

That is simply not true. But I won't engage in that debate because I don't want to be lumped with Millsapa. Sooo, I'll broach it some other time.

Edit: It is true in the case of Christians and Jews. But not others. Not by a long shot.

By "conversions", that is what I was referring to, in essence. I don't know if I could make the same claim for pagans that lived together with Muslims in the first millennium. It is something that I will need to research in depth before I could argue with you about it, and be able to offer good, educated insight. Regardless, I'd love to hear what you have to say on this topic some time in the near future.

Long story short though, I think we can both agree that Millsapa is completely incorrect with the notion that Muslim doctrine insists that we should forcibly convert christians, eh Siromar? Give credit where credit is due